VAT issues for travel to sailing events in EU

[eddystone]

If you tow a dinghy/keelboat to an international event somewhere in EU, organised by the class association, are there any VAT risks either on entering EU or returning to UK? Bear in mind many such boats are bought through private sales with no VAT documentation

 

[DownWest]

Interesting comment.. I have just been asked about a friend having trouble with insuring his home built trailer for a visite here. He has been often before with no probs. I suggested an IVA inspection to give it a bit of paper.

 

[Sandy]

I've written to my MP asking him to get some clarification about all thing boaty and EU. A month later I received a reply saying I've passed that onto HMRC, suggest you do the same. If we make enough noise HMRC should give it some thought.

 

[dunedin]

If you tow a dinghy/keelboat to an international event somewhere in EU, organised by the class association, are there any VAT risks either on entering EU or returning to UK? Bear in mind many such boats are bought through private sales with no VAT documentation

I would have though a UK resident taking their UK dinghy over to Garda, for example, should be fine. Temporary Importation of up to 18 months should be available.
But precisely what process and paperwork you need for crossing the channel remains to be seen in practice. More unnecessary hassle caused by this B thing.

 

[st599]

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/sites/taxation/files/rules_for_private_boats-faq_en.pdf

Looks like temporary import is available, but up to Customs whether you need to lodge a bond or not.

 

[TernVI]

What did people used to do, taking dinghiesand other possessions out of the EU temporarily?
People have been going to dinghy events all over the world, shipping their boats out ahead of them, for many years.

The UK seems to have lost the plot.

 

[st599]

What did people used to do, taking dinghiesand other possessions out of the EU temporarily?
People have been going to dinghy events all over the world, shipping their boats out ahead of them, for many years.

The UK seems to have lost the plot.

The various Olympic team logistics people I've met all use ATA Carnets. Not something you want to have to do.

 

[DownWest]

What did people used to do, taking dinghiesand other possessions out of the EU temporarily?
People have been going to dinghy events all over the world, shipping their boats out ahead of them, for many years.

The UK seems to have lost the plot.

Ages ago, I trailed a 26ft from SOF to Poole with a home made two axle trailer. About 3.5t, so well into regs now. No police or customs interest at all. Seems to be different now....

 

[eddystone]

Pre EU was another world when I had to fill in the amount of Sterling I was taking out of the country in my passport (£55 if I recall in 1970 for a months hitch hiking around Europe - although I did have to barter everything I had in Rome to buy a train ticket back)
My first thought was they wouldn’t be interested in an RS Aero on a road base but if they are worried about tax evading private sales who knows ( and where better than a European championship). From personal experience a Flying Fifteen or a Soling on a trailer definitely attracts intense Customs attention.

 

[michael_w]

When I was a kid I remember my father having to organise 4 separate carnets to take our family Wayfarer to Greece.
1. Car
2. Boat
3, Trailer
4. Outboard.

 

[TernVI]

But people I know have taken boats and vehicles to all sorts of places, and brought them back, without silly costs or excessive paperwork.
There was a 'rest of world' out there while were were in the EU.
HMRC has made things worse, seemingly using Brexit as a cover?

 

[Dan Tribe]

I recall the aggro of taking a Cadet to Hungary for Worlds Championships in 92.
Doomsayers insisted I got the boat registered on SSR and had paperwork for all the countries I went through, Belgium, Nederlands, Germany, Austria and Hungary. I was never asked to show any of it at any point. My daughter wanted to get a Hungarian stamp in her passport and we had to wake up the guard in his little booth. We got pulled by German police on the autobahn but they only wanted to check our weight.
Hopefully, once the Brexit dust settles, things will be sensible again. Problem is, if you have an accident or get a bolshie officer, they could throw the book at you I suppose.

 

[Frogmogman]

HMRC has made things worse, seemingly using Brexit as a cover?

That is the nature of bureaucracies. They can empire build by making more paperwork and red tape. The idea that the EU was the font of all pain-in-the-backside bureaucratic excess was always nonsense. The UK civil service (like their French equivalent) are masters at this.

 

[dunedin]

But people I know have taken boats and vehicles to all sorts of places, and brought them back, without silly costs or excessive paperwork.
There was a 'rest of world' out there while were were in the EU.
HMRC has made things worse, seemingly using Brexit as a cover?

Well what did you expect? One thing Britain is “world class” at is bureacracy, more so than most EU countries.

 

[dunedin]

When I was a kid I remember my father having to organise 4 separate carnets to take our family Wayfarer to Greece.
1. Car
2. Boat
3, Trailer
4. Outboard.

I was too young to remember the details, but yes I do remember my father cursing his way through multiple bits of paperwork needed to take our wee Mirror dinghy and Jap outboard to France and beyond, late 60s or early 70s. The “good old days”?

 

[eddystone]

I can see hiring boats becoming more attractive for the big European events

 

[prv]

But people I know have taken boats and vehicles to all sorts of places, and brought them back, without silly costs or excessive paperwork.

Maybe they didn’t do paperwork they should have done, and were lucky not to get caught?

A friend of mine does lighting and video projection for stage shows; he used to do a lot of work around Europe, and occasionally further afield. They employed a specialist company to deal with the customs paperwork for non-EU trips, but even so he said it was “a massive ball-ache” both in preparation for a tour - having to document well in advance every piece of equipment they were going to take - and on the road - especially the time they had to unpack a whole artic at the Turkish (I think) border.

Pete

 

[Graham376]

That is the nature of bureaucracies. They can empire build by making more paperwork and red tape. The idea that the EU was the font of all pain-in-the-backside bureaucratic excess was always nonsense. The UK civil service (like their French equivalent) are masters at this.

Obviously you've have never had to deal with Portuguese bureaucracy. Give me UK red tape any time.

 

[st599]

A friend of mine does lighting and video projection for stage shows; he used to do a lot of work around Europe, and occasionally further afield. They employed a specialist company to deal with the customs paperwork for non-EU trips, but even so he said it was “a massive ball-ache” both in preparation for a tour - having to document well in advance every piece of equipment they were going to take - and on the road - especially the time they had to unpack a whole artic at the Turkish (I think) border.

Sounds familiar, the Carnet application requires Tax description, Manufacturer, Location of Manufacture, Serial Number, Replacement cost, for each item. Then when you get to customs, they pick a few random numbers off the list and you have to show them those items.

 

[prv]

Sounds familiar, the Carnet application requires Tax description, Manufacturer, Location of Manufacture, Serial Number, Replacement cost, for each item. Then when you get to customs, they pick a few random numbers off the list and you have to show them those items.

I think in this case someone had added some laser power-supplies as last-minute spares, and they weren't on the customs paperwork. They had to unpack the truck and catalogue the whole lot to see what else was "being smuggled". Took all day; fortunately it was on the way home so didn't make them late for setting up a show.

Most Brits in recent memory have only travelled to non-EU places as individual airline passengers, on holiday or as short-term business visitors, where the process is fairly streamlined. They've forgotten that this is the reality of international borders and always has been. Even the US-Canada border, which you'd imagine would be fairly straightforward between friendly and culturally fairly similar nations, I know an American who was turned back for something or other to do with his car paperwork. And I read a blog post by an artist living in the northeastern US who decided to drive to a comics convention just over the border to sell some of her art - she knew she had to do export paperwork for the goods and tried to ensure it was taken care of in advance, but still ended up spending hours at the border re-filing paperwork and paying fees she didn't expect to. She lost money on the whole affair and I think decided not to bother in future.

Pete