Using the kicker as a gybe preventer

[peterb]

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How was the jury rig set up?

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Much easier than it sounds. The gooseneck was a 'Y' shaped casting, with a pin through the legs of the Y to act as a pivot. The fracture was across one of the legs of the Y, and was very granular. We put the two parts together, then wrapped it with multitudinous turns of cord to keep the two in compression. We had been on port tack, and it was the port leg that had broken off; further wraps were used to spread the load onto the starboard leg. Then taking in two reefs reduced the load sufficiently for us to sail in to Lymington, where Jeremy Rogers replaced the boom end fitting the following morning. But it was noticeable that the replacement fitting had cheeks nearly twice as thick as those on the broken fitting!

 

[zefender]

Just to add to the comments about the strain caused by not attaching the preventer to the end of the boom. ... I saw a brand new 36' boat in Portugal two years ago with its Seldon boom cut entirely in two. The skipper (surprisingly a professional delivery skippy) was adamant it was a fault since "I always rig the preventer there, and it was only blowing a F4 anyway". The manual is quite clear though - it's not the place to fit a preventer in most cases. In his case, I think he also underestimated the impact of the swell in the otherwise benign conditions.

 

[tcm]

Re: mooring lines better as preventer

as a speed-crazed often-motorpowered type, i spend huge quantities of time going directly downwind.

I reckon that this would be okay, but will still stick in 2p worth.

I agree bout the higher loads on the boom with a preventer on the end but...i don't think that downwind the forces are that high. Is snapping booms that common? I reckon it wd be v hard to bust it and having given numerous rental boats a good biffing i haven't managed it...

Depending on boom etc length.... a long preventer from the boom end may not *actually* prevent the gybe. Whci his a good point for the kicker method

My pref is for preventer which is NOT a braided (inelastic) line.

So, i use a mooring line as preventer off a middle of boom (shackle, whatever) forward to a mid cleat and back to a winch, all pulling against the mainsheet just about holding the sail off the shrouds. Any probs and the mooring line can be dumped quickly.

so, no prob really with the kicker method, just the poncing about to set it up as a kicker again - and off course it isn't very elastic.

A preventer would benefit from being elastic for all the reasons that mooring lines need to "give" as well

Oh alright, if someone was really worried, you could take the preventer from the end of the boom. But taking it a long long way forward is a mistake imho - i mean - that's hardly in a different position than if the preventer was set for the boom on the other tack except it's cnnected to boom and cleat a few feet to t'other side - so it's happy to allow the gybe, whereas a cleat the mid cleat gives a more positive holding position.

all imho

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: mooring lines better as preventer

>i don't think that downwind the forces are that high. Is snapping booms that common?<

Only done it once and that was nothing to do with a preventer, but it does happen if you manage to roll the end of the boom into the water. Mind you breeze and sea state have got to be pretty gnarly before that happens

>But taking it a long long way forward is a mistake imho - i mean - that's hardly in a different position than if the preventer was set for the boom on the other tack<

Err - no coz the end of the boom is x feet (x/3.3 metres) outside of the boat, so the angle tween centreline of noble craft and the line going to boom end is somewhere in the 30-40 degree region - quite enough mechanical advantage to do its job.

Quite agree about having a bouncy line - a nice bit of 3 strand nylon would do the job.

PS Unless something like solid land dictates otherwise, it's often more comfortable/less nerve wracking to broad reach/gybe/broad reach than run dead downwind and as fast (or almost), esp in lighter airs.

 

[tome]

Re: mooring lines better as preventer

We busted a boom once also, but that was running before a full gale with no preventer rigged as the skipper deemed it unsafe. Big roll, boom in water next thing violent gybe. We were lucky not to lose the rig and one of the crew was badly injured whilst retrieving the boom.

On our boat the mainsheet doesn't go to the end of the boom so i tend to rig the preventer to the mainsheet attachment, figuring that this is the safest place.

Agree about avoiding dead downwind if possible. Much better to take the seas on the quarter also.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Re: mooring lines better as preventer

If on a dead run in a wind strong enough to do rig damage if an accidental gybe occurs, I ditch the main completely and use just the headsail. A headsail gybe causes no danger or damage, and does away completely with the requirement for a preventer. Progress does not seem to be slowed much.

Is there any problem with this method?

 

[jimi]

Foresail only

Must admit I tend to do the same. However it has been pointed out in the past that in heavy seas this can cause the mast to pump with the possibility of rig failure. I would like to learn more about that from knowledgeable contributors.

 

[Ships_Cat]

Re: Foresail only

We do the same too.

John

 

[tome]

Re: mooring lines better as preventer

No problem at all, this is what we do also.

On our rig (masthead with babystay) the only time we had mast pumping was when the rig was too slack when I first took delivery of the boat. Never had it since, despite running under reduced headsail in strong winds. Our No3 jib is set on an inner stay and is high cut so it's a comfortable sail downwind in big seas.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Wiggly mast

I guess if the rig's jiggly it's because there's no leech tension to help stabilise the top of the mast. But a mainsail on a run has very little leech tension. Anyway, it's the backstay's job (on a mast head rig going downwind) to stop wobble, and the running backstays (or aft-swept shrouds) on a fractional rig.

Spoze belt and braces might be to take the main halyard to the aft end of the boom, harden it up and then sheet the boom home hard (you could harden the kicker as well) but frankly I don't see that making a deal of difference.

If the mast pants, then the answer's got to be in the standing rigging (or lack thereof) somewhere. Fit a baby stay?

 

[Ships_Cat]

Re: Wiggly mast

I agree with that Ken.

All boats expected to have any endurance should be able to carry a heavy weather jib alone (in modern boats often rigged on the forestay or is the foresail part furled so force goes to the masthead) in heavy weather. In which case I cannot see why in lighter conditions a larger foresail alone should not be carried downwind too.

John

 

[jimi]

Mast panting

erm still a bit puzzled. Asumming rig is tight & baby stay etc then presume the mast middle can flex forwards? A halyard from the top of the mast to the boom end wo'nt change that. However the argument apparently goes that a reefed main will dampen any panting. Views?

 

[dulcibella]

i don't advise it. Many years ago I was doing this, got caught by a line squall before I could release the kicker, gybed (half) the boom and broke it by the kicker. Silver lining - replaced on insurance with a sensible slab reefing boom instead of the horrible round-boom roller reefing that Halmatic 30s had.

 

[tcm]

knackering the boat downwind

apart from the rig, a big prob is the control with lack of much relative water movement over the ruidder.

Once, i remeber in reasonable sea having to rip the wheel repeatedly to regain central helm position for the next crest, for about 2 hours. Apparently, the rudder linkage busted itself with a couple of weeks altho I beleiev it hardly caused him much of a prob and i think it was all sorted under warranty...