Using the kicker as a gybe preventer

[BlueSkyNick]

The previous owner of our boat, the erstwhile Steve_Clayton of this forum, advised me to use the kicker as a gype preventer. Yes folks, we still have one with rope and blocks, not one of these hydraulic vang devices.

On a dead run, or close to it, we can disconnect the lower end of the kicker as it is on a snap shackle and transfer it to a suitable point on the toe rail. The tail end is already brought back in the cockpit via a jamming cleat, and onto a small winch. So we can get it pretty tight, but also let it go slack in a hurry if necessary. SOmebody still has to go back to the toe rail to take it off, of course.

It only takes a few seconds to set up and take down, as long as the boat is not rolling too much. Easier than setting up a conventional preventer from the end of the boom, up to the foredeck etc.

Is this a recognised practice? Any problems with it?

I am contemplating fitting a vang anyway, which will do away with this method - but in the meantime, I plan to stick with it.

 

[tome]

The kicker should be set up off the wind to stop the boom lifting, so this probably helps explains your poor downwind performance.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Well it does a better job of stopping the boom from lifting, from the toe rail than from its central position. Its all to do with angles, moments and stuff which I learned about 30 years ago!

So I reckon it makes our downwind performance even better.

 

[tome]

Well, alll that weight at the stern can't do any harm either/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Just you wait till SWMBO sees you next. You are in for it, making remarks like that!

Everybody else - just ignore tome - I would be more than happy to receive serious responses to my thread!

 

[jimi]

My concerns would be
1) Always told that gy preventer should be at end of boom, better angle and no risk of snapping boom
2) With inmast furling I'd suspect you'd be better with the kicker on all the time or you will risk getting folds in main if having to roll away in a hurry?

 

[ChrisE]

Nick,
I'm sure that this would work but why not just stick a block amidships and a run a line from the aft end of the boom through the block and back onto a winch in the cockpit. That way the kicker will keep the boom down and the preventer will reduce the impact of an accidental gybe. We've used this arrangement for years and it has well for us.
Chris
PS agree about the weight in the back, tho!

 

[aluijten]

Other then the max force applied to the toerail, I can't think of a reason why it's such a bad idea.
Thinking about the idea I guess it's even safer because of the place at the boom where you attach the kicker, you don't need to strech all the way to the end of the boom.
You could also consider using a second kicker to the toerail and keep the first one in the original place.

Ciao,

Arno

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Ummm,

1) is a good point, hadn't thought about potential boom damage. Would have to be blowing pretty hard though, in which case we would probably be under genoa only.

2) not a big problem, as I need to get head to wind to furl, anyway. So taking the kicker or any other gybe preventer off would still take time.

 

[bbg]

Two potential reasons I can think of not to do it - first, because of where the system is located on the boom, there will be extremely high loads on the preventer system - leading the the question: which point of the system is going to fail first in a catastrophic situation - line? blocks? shackles? toe rail? (However in most situations the preventer should be tight enough to prevent the really big loads and shock loads from arising in the first place, by preventing the main and boom from gaining momentum).

Second reason is that with a typical vang there is lots of mechanical advantage - which also means lots of friction and the need to release lots of line if you do want the system fully to release. Do you have enough line to fully release (i.e. let the main gybe without going on deck to release from the toe rail?). If you can't do this you might find the boat pinned down in the water if the boat suffers an uncontrolled gybe without the main crossing over.

Both of these are, admittedly, worst case scenarios with a lot of wind needed to create the problems - just be aware of them.

A system I have seen work very well is to fit a permanent strop to the boom, nearly the length of the boom, that is attached to a piece of shock cord near the gooseneck. When you want to rig a preventer, you take a second line to a block on the foredeck and back to the strop (which you have released from the shock cord). Instant preventer to the end of the boom, without fiddling with the end of the boom at all. If you use this system you may also want to design a weak link into the system, so the system fails before the toe rail on the foredeck is ripped out. Obviously the overall system is going to need to be pretty strong, but if it is going to fail at a certain load, would you rather replace a shackle or a toe rail?

NB if your main sheet is not attached to the end of the boom, the strop either does not go all the way to the end of the boom (made fast just forward of the mainsheet) or you have a strop each side of the boom.

But, to get back to your original question, in moderate conditions you probably won't have a problem with your set up.

 

[bbg]

And now I see other, less wordy people have beat me to the punch!

 

[Twister_Ken]

Dammit, Jimi\'s right.

Hate to say it but I agree with wee, mad jock. Attachment should be at aft end of boom, not at kicker point, coz if you roll the boom end in your way, there's a turrible lot of leverage trying to bend the boom at the kicker attachment point.

 

[jamesjermain]

My first thought was that you would be putting too much strain on the toe rail. But then I am happy to strap the spinnaker guy to the rail so why not the main?

Second though was what to do when you wanted to gybe. If you released the kicker, you must gybe immediately to avoid an accidental one. This will become more likely as the boom lifts and the sail becomes unstable. You could, of course, come closer to the wind while you swap the kicker over then gybe when all's ready.

Third thought. Why not have two handy billy type tackles which you take to a point at or aft of the mid point of the boom. You can then set up one for each gybe and have the kicker ready when you need it.

Fourth thought. I have a Scott Boom Lock, which is a sort of friction device, and a great gybe preventer/controller but it doesn't stop the boom flapping around in calm or light airs. I would recommend it but since Mr Scott retired I don't think it has been made.

 

[Sybarite]

Would this work?

Hang a short loop of rope from the end of the boom say 9" down. Take a second line from one toe rail up through the loop round behind the loop and back through it again eg like a reef knot. Then take the other end down to a pulley on the other tow rail and then back to the helmsman to cleat or to hold. The friction of the boom trailing the loop along the anchored line should be enough to slow the jibe. The tension can be adjusted by the helmsman to the extent he takes up the slack on the preventer line at his end.

Seems simple and (especially) cheap to me.

John

 

[ashanta]

Des Slighthome (hope iv'e got the spelling right!) would have agreed with you and so would many of us cruisers. If it works then why not. I certainly have used this technique because it's practical while sailing mostly single handed.
Regards.
Peter.
peter.

 

[mikebees]

Bignick. No problems with the idea. I used it on my Vancouver 32 (which admittedly had a massive boom) for many years except I snapshackled onto the deck attachment points for the running backstays. Being lazy, I have sailed by the lee for many hours quite happily with this arrangement - it gives you a terrific sense of security.

 

[Gunfleet]

I think you'll find Sailspar in Brightlingsea make and market the Scott Boom Lock now, James, in 2 different versions. See here

 

[peterb]

[ QUOTE ]
Two potential reasons I can think of not to do it - first, because of where the system is located on the boom, there will be extremely high loads on the preventer system - leading the the question: which point of the system is going to fail first in a catastrophic situation - line? blocks? shackles? toe rail?

[/ QUOTE ]

Many years ago (before the days of Coastal Skipper) I did my Yachtmaster practical course from the old National Sailing Centre in a Contessa 32. The instructor (Rod Carr, now CEO of the RYA) showed us how to rig a preventer with the kicking strap taken down to a stanchion base.

One of the crew, however, was not on deck at the time, and when he came up he thought the main was a little loose so he pulled in on the main sheet. A 5:1 purchase on the main sheet, together with a 4:1 lever effect on the boom produced a loud bang as the gooseneck casting broke.

Rod's response was interesting. He appeared at the companionway, spotted what had happened, said "That was a b****y silly thing to do. Now, we've got about 20 minutes before we reach the Hurst Narrows, and I want to go through under sail. So that gives you lot about 20 minutes to rig a jury gooseneck!", then disappeared below and left us to get on with it.

Oh, yes, we went through Hurst under sail.

 

[BrendanS]

Now that's an interesting post, and I'm sure there are many more like it out there. Would love to hear more.

How was the jury rig set up?

 

[ashanta]

It is a a good question as a single hander youdon't come across these communication problems