Using Supermarket Diesel ?

[Rafiki]

Having just topped up with red diesel at the nearby MDL marina at a cost of 128p a litre I have realised it's now within 10p of the cost of Tesco fuel.
So why not use that. I have large cans as often fill up with red bought from the local fuel station on the Grand Union canal.

The engine is a Volvo D2-40, so their latest range of engines, though is 10 years old. All the manual says about fuel is that it "must comply with latest national and international standards such as EN590, ASTMD975 No1-D and 2-D, JIS KK 2204 and that Sulfur content must comply with the latest legal requirements in each country. It then says that Low density fuel (urban diesel in Sweden or city diesel in Finland) can cause loss of 5% power and 3% increase in consumption"

So no mention of "FAME", whatever that is!

So what do you all think, is supermarket fuel OK to use in these relatively more modern diesel engines ?

Andrew

 

[pvb]

Yes it's OK to use, but it's a bit of a pain to cart and dispense from cans.

 

[duncan99210]

I’ve been using white diesel in the boat since we left UK waters 10 years ago. No problems with it at all, I just make sure whenever possible to buy from busy fuel quays or mini tankers to minimise the chance of contaminated fuel.

 

[david_bagshaw]

Having just topped up with red diesel at the nearby MDL marina at a cost of 128p a litre I have realised it's now within 10p of the cost of Tesco fuel.
So why not use that. I have large cans as often fill up with red bought from the local fuel station on the Grand Union canal.

The engine is a Volvo D2-40, so their latest range of engines, though is 10 years old. All the manual says about fuel is that it "must comply with latest national and international standards such as EN590, ASTMD975 No1-D and 2-D, JIS KK 2204 and that Sulfur content must comply with the latest legal requirements in each country. It then says that Low density fuel (urban diesel in Sweden or city diesel in Finland) can cause loss of 5% power and 3% increase in consumption"

So no mention of "FAME", whatever that is!

So what do you all think, is supermarket fuel OK to use in these relatively more modern diesel engines ?

Andrew

all uk road fuels have to meet EN 590

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I fitted a new Yanmar 3YM30 to my old boat and happily used supermarket diesel for 5 years afterwards with no problems either enginwise or with fuel bug.
I used one of the £3 syphon tubes with a simple ball valve fitting to transfer it a jiggler Think they were called.

 

[CLB]

In many waterside fuel berths, red diesel at 60:40 is actually dearer than fully duty paid white diesel from the roadside. I am struggling to understand how that is possible, short of dispenser greed.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

In many waterside fuel berths, red diesel at 60:40 is actually dearer than fully duty paid white diesel from the roadside. I am struggling to understand how that is possible, short of dispenser greed.

Volume.

 

[CLB]

I don't buy that argument. It might account for a couple of pence per litre, but with marine red selling for 10p per litre more than road white in at least one place, when the duty on the fuel should be 40% less, and you pay 5% Vat on 40% of your fuel, something doesn't quite add up.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Captive market?

 

[Graham376]

In many waterside fuel berths, red diesel at 60:40 is actually dearer than fully duty paid white diesel from the roadside. I am struggling to understand how that is possible, short of dispenser greed.

So, what would be the cost difference on 100% duty free against white? Seems their resistance to stocking white rather than red may not be valid if the commercial guys are paying virtually the same price anyway.

 

[CLB]

Captive market?

Yes, which equals greed.

Just as a matter of interes, I have just been online to get quotes for a delivery of red diesel. I asked for three quotes for 1,000, 10,000 and 100,000 litres.

The 1 and 10 thousand litre order came in for exactly the same 57.55ppl. The 100,000 litre order was actually more expensive at 57.65ppl, so volume may not be playing the part that people think. These prices were for 35sec red diesel for domestic uses. If someone want to do the sums and stick extra duty and vat onto 60% of the litre price, you should be able to come up with a cost price per litre.

Edit
Sod it, I have had a go and come up with a back of fag packet calculation that give 95ppl at the rates above for 60:40. Obviously there needs to be a profit on this, but what is acceptable 5ppl, 10ppl, 15ppl? I would argue that 40+ppl, which is what some are charging, is OTT.

 

[CLB]

So, what would be the cost difference on 100% duty free against white? Seems their resistance to stocking white rather than red may not be valid if the commercial guys are paying virtually the same price anyway.

I think if we are seeing marinas adding up to 40ppl for their cut in red diesel, we have to assume they would do the same for white. If they start supplying white diesel using the same profit margin, we are looking at marinas prices of around £1.60 upwards. If you want proof of this, just look at the price or petrol where it is sold on the water.

 

[lw395]

A fuel pontoon will pay more for its diesel than a roadside fuel station which shifts millions of litres.
Then it has much slower turnover per staff member. The checkout girl at my usual fuel stop does several cars a minute? All shift long.
So her wages etc have much less impact. And each sale is £40 plus.
I've been known to drag someone down to the pontoon to sell me 2 gallons to top up. Many yachts at our pontoon are only taking 20 litres, they have maybe a 50 litre tank and never aim to run it down. They faff about occupying the pump berth for ages to do this.
They might be busy sometimes in August and at certain times on the weekend, but it's not like Tescos on benefit day.
You need some Sunseekers taking 300 litres to improve the economics.

We buy white in cans from the roadside and have no problems.
We do make an effort not to store more fuel longer than necessary, and clean the tank now and then.
We had more problems in the old days of red.

 

[CLB]

A fuel pontoon will pay more for its diesel than a roadside fuel station which shifts millions of litres.
Then it has much slower turnover per staff member. The checkout girl at my usual fuel stop does several cars a minute? All shift long.
So her wages etc have much less impact. And each sale is £40 plus.
I've been known to drag someone down to the pontoon to sell me 2 gallons to top up. Many yachts at our pontoon are only taking 20 litres, they have maybe a 50 litre tank and never aim to run it down. They faff about occupying the pump berth for ages to do this.
They might be busy sometimes in August and at certain times on the weekend, but it's not like Tescos on benefit day.
You need some Sunseekers taking 300 litres to improve the economics.

We buy white in cans from the roadside and have no problems.
We do make an effort not to store more fuel longer than necessary, and clean the tank now and then.
We had more problems in the old days of red.

You are thinking like a yachtie. I have a very small and modest Mobo and will still take up to 400 litres at a time. Fuel berth staff at marinas are there anyway, they are not usually dedicated fuel staff, but one of the general staff. Again I don't think amount dispensed justifies the difference. Yes if you only buy 20 litres at a time, they might be only earning £8 out of you, but when the average mobo fills up, that's £200 profit in one fill. A couple of those in one day, and you have paid the wages for a whole week for a marina assistant. If the profit on my fill was only £100, instead of £200, I think thats still a decent return.

There are marinas around my way charging £1.10 per litre, which by my calcs is 15ppl profit and a reasonable amount. The ones charging £1.30+ are just rip off merchants IMHO. They have all the same issues as the one charging 20ppl more, with regards to turnover, staff, tank cleaning etc etc, so where is the justification for the extra cost?

 

[ffiill]

That's approx. 100% profit - reds about 65 p a litre wholesale

 

[lw395]

That's approx. 100% profit - reds about 65 p a litre wholesale

Does the wholesale price include any duty?

 

[CLB]

That's approx. 100% profit - reds about 65 p a litre wholesale

Does the wholesale price include any duty?

My quote, obtained today, for red diesel was 57.55ppl. This includes the lower rate of duty, which is 11.14ppl and VAT at 5%.

When you buy 60:40, 40 litres per 100 will be at the price above (plus the suppliers profit margin) while 60 litres per 100 will have the extra 46.81ppl duty added and have 20% VAT added

 

[lw395]

You are thinking like a yachtie. I have a very small and modest Mobo and will still take up to 400 litres at a time. Fuel berth staff at marinas are there anyway, they are not usually dedicated fuel staff, but one of the general staff. Again I don't think amount dispensed justifies the difference. Yes if you only buy 20 litres at a time, they might be only earning £8 out of you, but when the average mobo fills up, that's £200 profit in one fill. A couple of those in one day, and you have paid the wages for a whole week for a marina assistant. If the profit on my fill was only £100, instead of £200, I think thats still a decent return.

There are marinas around my way charging £1.10 per litre, which by my calcs is 15ppl profit and a reasonable amount. The ones charging £1.30+ are just rip off merchants IMHO. They have all the same issues as the one charging 20ppl more, with regards to turnover, staff, tank cleaning etc etc, so where is the justification for the extra cost?

The smart people wanting 400 litres aren't paying OTT for it.
But for some people time is money, and time on your boat often costs £££ per hour when you work it out, so your choice to pay for the convenience or shop around.
It's like paying £8 for a glass of wine which you can get for £6 a bottle. Such is retail.
Everything other than petrol/diesel, retail markups are usually huge.
Rant against it if that makes you happier.

 

[sailaboutvic]

We filled up in the south of France the other week , we needed 250 lts , marinas was charging 1.58 pl , we carried it in cans from a road side garages , we had a 5 mins walk , garage to dinghy @1.35 pl
That a saving of €57 , well worth the walk ,

 

[davidmh]

what are the problems of using white diesel in an older engine 1980's. I have a Bukh 20 1985 has anyone used white diesel in a Bukh,

David MH