USA yacht and CE Marking

[Heckler]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

18 months. And nothing to do with RCD.

The point I am making is that the RCD is a load of crap, protectionism disguised as safety stuff. If American boats are dangerous or whatever why let them in as visitors?

 

[npf1]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

Isn't it the case that you can operate a non CE boat in EU waters but you cannot sell one.

The regulations use the term “placed in service”.

 

[macd]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

The point I am making is that the RCD is a load of crap, protectionism disguised as safety stuff. If American boats are dangerous or whatever why let them in as visitors?

I understood your point perfectly well, as I'm sure others did, also. What I didn't understand was the need to accompany it with a blatant falsehood.

...wont be long before we are out of the sorry mess that has produced protectionism rubbish like this!

That would be more credible if the UK weren't an eager party to the creation of RCD in the first place. And UK boat builders will still be saddled with it if they aspire to exporting their products post-Brexit.

 

[Salty John]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

On the subject of US boats, I've just returned from Texas where, at a marina on Galveston Bay is a Westerly Oceanlord, 1986, for sale privately. The asking price is just US$40,000.
I assume this boat would be RCD exempt, having been manufactured in UK in 1986.
I'm not in the market for a boat but this one struck me as a particularly good deal.

 

[Motor_Sailor]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

. . . And UK boat builders will still be saddled with it . . .

Not 'saddled with', they will actively continue to embrace it.

The RCD is about the only boatbuilding standard in town. We could embrace the ABYC's standards, but they don't do hull scantlings and why would the American's opinion about what constitutes a 'well built boat' be any more universal or correct than the worldwide panels that came up with the ISO standards.

Some insurance houses still have their own standards and boatbuilders are free to use their scantlings in meeting the requirements of the RCD. But no builder is going to produce a boat not built to meet the RCD - the liability risk would make that totally unrealistic.

All the protectionist twaddle about the Europe's use of the RCD is twaddle. Some of the biggest movers for a pan European consistent standard were the American builders of fast runabouts and sports boats. They wanted to have one model that was acceptable throughout Europe.

 

[Seven Spades]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

It is protectionist for the simple reason that they changed the rules between RCD and RCD2 to prevent brokers importing boats and having them CE marked. If it is OK for me as a personal import then it should be OK for a broker. The only reason for the change is protectionist.

 

[Raw]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

The RCD has a new category of Private Importer that stops individuals buying outside the EU and then using imported vessels in EU waters. This does catch people in other EU states that have national navigation licenses that require the submitting of the Declaration of Conformity, other EU states also limit your navigational license to sea areas based upon the design category of the vessel.

 

[macd]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

Not 'saddled with', they will actively continue to embrace it.

No pejorative necessarily implied. Horsey people can be quite fond of saddles, I understand

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

On the subject of US boats, I've just returned from Texas where, at a marina on Galveston Bay is a Westerly Oceanlord, 1986, for sale privately. The asking price is just US$40,000.
I assume this boat would be RCD exempt, having been manufactured in UK in 1986.
I'm not in the market for a boat but this one struck me as a particularly good deal.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid that if you import a boat, it must meet the RCD standards current on the date of import, not the date of build. So, it wouldn't be RCD exempt, even if it would have been if it had stayed on the right hand side of the pond.

 

[Seven Spades]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

What about a boat that was CE marked under RCD and changes hands in Australia does it then need to comply with RCD2 on its return.

Leo Sampson says he is restoring Tally Ho and want to sail it back to the UK, will he have to pay VAT on the £1 he paid for her or the current valuation and will it need to be RCD 2 compliant as well?

 

[Raw]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

No, only ce marked when first placed on the market or put into use. If already CE marked and used in EU waters before there is no need. one word of caution is with a refit check out the requirements for major craft conversion on CE marked vessels.

 

[Tranona]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

Unfortunately, I'm afraid that if you import a boat, it must meet the RCD standards current on the date of import, not the date of build. So, it wouldn't be RCD exempt, even if it would have been if it had stayed on the right hand side of the pond.

No. It was built in the EEA before 1998 so is exempt from the RCD. That in theory make buying an older EEA built boat in US very attractive - except that they are invariably sheds as they have such low value to US buyers.

 

[Tranona]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

Ranting? hmm, disagree and you call it ranting? Anyway you and I agree on one thing, wont be long before we are out of the sorry mess that has produced protectionism rubbish like this!

It is nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing - just that your rants show how out of touch you are with reality.

For a start, the RCD was brought in for the very opposite of protectionism. That is what existed in Europe before where every state had its own regulations and it was UK builders who suffered most. So the RCD, largely developed by the UK was designed to remove those restrictions to trade and establish common (and better) standards.

The US is far and away the most protectionist of all the large trading nations, having its own standards which you have to meet to sell there. Inevitably that meant that European/USA trade in boats (both ways) was almost zero and each market was just about self sufficient. The RCD did nothing to change this and although some builders did continue to build boats for the other market (Beneteau from Europe to US and a whole host of sport boat builders in the US for Europe) the two markets stayed self sufficient.

So the only people who "suffer" are a few individuals like the OP whose ideal boat is not readily available in Europe.

If you seriously think anything is going to change when we leave the EU you must be living in a different world from the rest of us. Why do you think that our boatbuilders would want to change from complying with the RCD when, not only is it the best standard there is but customers will demand it?

There is nothing you or anybody can do about regulation in principle, nor do you have a choice where it is compulsory. So why get yourself worked up about something that is totally out of your control? There is more than enough still that is in your control, such as the life you are now leading through choice.

Getting the most out of life is through believing in the art of the possible, not worrying about the things you can't do or are not allowed to do (even if you don't want to!).

 

[Heckler]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

Not 'saddled with', they will actively continue to embrace it.

The RCD is about the only boatbuilding standard in town. We could embrace the ABYC's standards, but they don't do hull scantlings and why would the American's opinion about what constitutes a 'well built boat' be any more universal or correct than the worldwide panels that came up with the ISO standards.

Some insurance houses still have their own standards and boatbuilders are free to use their scantlings in meeting the requirements of the RCD. But no builder is going to produce a boat not built to meet the RCD - the liability risk would make that totally unrealistic.

All the protectionist twaddle about the Europe's use of the RCD is twaddle. Some of the biggest movers for a pan European consistent standard were the American builders of fast runabouts and sports boats. They wanted to have one model that was acceptable throughout Europe.

Yup thats why we see imported American speed boats without CE marks for sale. I warned a mate of mine who was going to buy one, when he asked about the mark the boat was hurredly withdrawn from sale!

 

[Heckler]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

It is nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing - just that your rants show how out of touch you are with reality.

For a start, the RCD was brought in for the very opposite of protectionism. That is what existed in Europe before where every state had its own regulations and it was UK builders who suffered most. So the RCD, largely developed by the UK was designed to remove those restrictions to trade and establish common (and better) standards.

The US is far and away the most protectionist of all the large trading nations, having its own standards which you have to meet to sell there. Inevitably that meant that European/USA trade in boats (both ways) was almost zero and each market was just about self sufficient. The RCD did nothing to change this and although some builders did continue to build boats for the other market (Beneteau from Europe to US and a whole host of sport boat builders in the US for Europe) the two markets stayed self sufficient.

So the only people who "suffer" are a few individuals like the OP whose ideal boat is not readily available in Europe.

If you seriously think anything is going to change when we leave the EU you must be living in a different world from the rest of us. Why do you think that our boatbuilders would want to change from complying with the RCD when, not only is it the best standard there is but customers will demand it?

There is nothing you or anybody can do about regulation in principle, nor do you have a choice where it is compulsory. So why get yourself worked up about something that is totally out of your control? There is more than enough still that is in your control, such as the life you are now leading through choice.

Getting the most out of life is through believing in the art of the possible, not worrying about the things you can't do or are not allowed to do (even if you don't want to!).[/QUOTE
Edit, on second thoughts, rant? hmm, look to your own post! pot calling kettle black?

 

[Tranona]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

Edit, on second thoughts, rant? hmm, look to your own post! pot calling kettle black?

No, not at all. Do you really have difficulty in understanding statements of facts and differentiating from your fact free rants? Or is it that you have no answer to facts which contradict you somewhat warped view of the world?

 

[westernman]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

What about a boat that was CE marked under RCD and changes hands in Australia does it then need to comply with RCD2 on its return.

Leo Sampson says he is restoring Tally Ho and want to sail it back to the UK, will he have to pay VAT on the £1 he paid for her or the current valuation and will it need to be RCD 2 compliant as well?

He might be able to get away without paying VAT. This is from HMRC:-

If you are moving your normal home from a non-EU country to an EU country, including the UK, you may import your vessel free of customs duty and VAT providing that you:

• have lived outside the EU for a continuous period of at least 12 months
• have possessed and used the vessel outside the EU for at least 6 months prior to importation
• did not get the vessel under a duty/tax free scheme (see below)
• declare the vessel to an officer
• will keep the vessel in the EU for private use
• do not sell, lend, hire out or otherwise dispose of the vessel in the EU within 12 months of importation unless you notify the Personal Transport Unit first, on Telephone: 01304 664 171, and duty and VAT is paid on disposal

• 
  

I think he does not have to be RCD 2 compliant as it will probably count as a self build. He won't be able to sell it for a period of 5 years.

 

[Heckler]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

No, not at all. Do you really have difficulty in understanding statements of facts and differentiating from your fact free rants? Or is it that you have no answer to facts which contradict you somewhat warped view of the world?

You really are a strange person. Not very nice either.

 

[macd]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

is it that you have no answer to facts which contradict you somewhat warped view of the world?

You really are a strange person. Not very nice either.

QED, I think.