Unreacted Coppercoat

Proper sanding

Dont waste time sanding back by hand. Use a random orbital with a soft pad (there are several different grades) and use P120 grade paper. You will need at least 6 discs per side. You have to expose a totally bright copper finish, or it just won't work!
 
Quality of the copper

Having talked to a manufacturer trying to develop a better epoxy copper antifouling, one problem he has is being able to source pure copper powder. It seems that it can have quite a bit of brass, and other impurities, in it making it less effective. When at the SHBS I was interested in the CuNitec, it seems to me it may be better as all the copper nickel is on the surface so a 100% cover and no epoxy to get through to expose it. But no testimonials so far so I guess we have to wait and see if it works.
 
The advantage of coppercoat-style epoxy-based coatings is that they are durable and very repairable. The same can't be said for hull coatings cunitec (and i think another was cuprotect?) where a base of epoxy suports a membrane of surface material.

I've had no problem getting hold of pure copper powder - web orderable from fluorochem and many others. "pure' in this case meaning 99%or better.
 
But presumably copper that is less pure would be much cheaper and also readily available. So a company could be buying in cheap copper mix, using any old epoxy and selling it as a finished job, and calling it anything they like and charging for a quality product and there would little a boat owner who is off site could do to prove what has been used. Just supposition, just a thought.
 
BlueChip said:
Save your money, it doesnt work - just read the Forums - ask any yard manager who does boat scrubs what condition they see boats who have copper coat are in.
I had it done professionally, just a week or two after launching or scrubbing off the weed and slime is back.
Click to expand...

I did ask a yard manager.
I did apply Coppercoat
I did abraid it as recommended in the instructions, using the plastic scouring pads supplied by Aquarius
It has turned green except for a couple of very small patches where the abrading was missed due to tiredness, old age, stupidity or whatever
After August and September in the water the new clean propeller which had not been antifouled had a hard coating already growing on both the bronze hub and the stainless blades while the coppercoated hull had the slightest of slimes on it.
Obviously not much of a test so far, but enough for me to take issue with your rather strongly stated opinions.
 
galadriel said:
But presumably copper that is less pure would be much cheaper and also readily available. So a company could be buying in cheap copper mix, using any old epoxy and selling it as a finished job, and calling it anything they like and charging for a quality product and there would little a boat owner who is off site could do to prove what has been used. Just supposition, just a thought.
Click to expand...
Some of the competitors to coppercoat use a copper/nickel powder but in higher concentrations to make up for the lower potency.
 
tcm said:
Main thing (for me) with coppercoat is that you get an epoxy surface which is waterproof and durable.
Click to expand...

The epoxy in Coppercoat is 'water missible' and not waterproof to anything like the extent of more conventional epoxies. If I recall correctly, Coppercoat was once held to work to some extent as an osmosis barrier coat, but this claim is no longer made.
 
Hm. I'm afraid that it seems you perhaps don't recall correctly - the word you may have wanted to use is "miscible" and means "can form a compound with". It applies to the coppercoat epoxy when wet, not dry. I don't think epoxy can be a "little bit permeable" - if it wasn't waterproof it likely wouldn't stay stuck on the boat for ten years or more? Perhaps a more likely reason for their withdrawing the "barrier coat" claim is commerical - that they no longer need to make the claim: it depends on how the stuff is applied - and it could be yet another minefield of potential claims against them?
 
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tcm said:
I don't think epoxy can be a "little bit permeable"
Click to expand...
Oh yes it can,quote from Copperplus:
COPPERPLUS is the result of extensive research to improve the performance and reliability of metallic copper-epoxy antifouling. The research has resulted in the discovery and patenting of a unique non-toxic additive that renders the epoxy binder micro-porous. Although the sponge like epoxy binder is mechanically very strong it does not trap the copper but allows it to easily leach from within the coating to the surface, where it forms a protective film that deters all forms of fouling.
 
Coppercoat - which abrasive to use?

I have also have Coppercoat which isn't working. I intend to abrade it in the spring using a Random Orbital Sander. It's been suggested Scotchbrite pads are good, but they come in many different grades.
What grade of abrasive have others used successfully?
 
I have coppercoat and after the first season I was convinced it was not working until I hauled it out. The slime was jetted off and it looked like new. After two weeks on the hard it turned green where it has been properly abraded and was left brown where not.

I got the yard back to re-abraid with a machine and it looked very promising. In July I had her lifted and held for a summer jet off and apart from a small amount of slime it was pretty much a waste of time and money.

My feeling is that it could be something wrong with the original application, possibly that the mixture was allowed to settle and that there is is just not enough coper in the mix or not all of the coper was added at the time of application. Alternatively is has emulsified and the epoxy has found its way to the surface and all your efforts to expose the copper have been fruitless.

Any of these thing s could be true. Are there any other boats near your with copper coat if so does it work for them or are they in the same situation? I doubt that the crustaceans in your area are immune from the poison that is copper. I believe that something is not right with your boat and that it is not the product, but a possibly combination of of things.
 
What grade of abrasive have others used successfully?

Read Nick "Seanick" Gates' post!

He is a professional boat builder ... follow his advice.
 
Seven Spades said:
I have coppercoat and after the first season I was convinced it was not working until I hauled it out. The slime was jetted off and it looked like new. After two weeks on the hard it turned green where it has been properly abraded and was left brown where not.

I got the yard back to re-abraid with a machine and it looked very promising. In July I had her lifted and held for a summer jet off and apart from a small amount of slime it was pretty much a waste of time and money.

My feeling is that it could be something wrong with the original application, possibly that the mixture was allowed to settle and that there is is just not enough coper in the mix or not all of the coper was added at the time of application. Alternatively is has emulsified and the epoxy has found its way to the surface and all your efforts to expose the copper have been fruitless.

Any of these thing s could be true. Are there any other boats near your with copper coat if so does it work for them or are they in the same situation? I doubt that the crustaceans in your area are immune from the poison that is copper. I believe that something is not right with your boat and that it is not the product, but a possibly combination of of things.
Click to expand...

Many thanks to all that have replied for their time and trouble.

I don't know anyone else in the area that has Coppercoat. The boat has been back to the applying yard twice and allegedly been abraded each time. The last time the yard manager said that 'it needs to get the air round it after it is abraded'. It was then out of the water for six weeks - unplanned! I broke my leg badly last September and was out of action for a long while.

I intend to rub it down again this November when she is hauled out, then pressure wash, then leave out of the water until she is launched in the Spring. If I can find some (and I don't know where from locally) then I'll also rub it with some of the suggested dilute hydrochoric acid. Whatever I do, it can't be much worse.

I realise that the great benefit is a hard scrubbable surface that doesn't need repainting. But arranging a scrub every four weeks all through the season is a major logistical challenge. If you do it yourself, the scrubbing posts are tidal and so you might not be able to do it at the weekend, and as I'm still at work I can't really afford the holiday time to do it midweek. We have no marina and no TravelHoist. The local yard lift and jet wash for you but this leaves an 'uncleared area' under the slings, unless you pay for a lift, chock up in a cradle and relaunch, and this gets expensive when you have to have it every four weeks...........!
 
Some brick, masonry, patio cleaners are hydrochloric acid based but by no means all!
Of the range on B&Q's website

Swarfega Brick and Masonry Cleaner is hydrochloric acid based
BUT
Swarfega "Tough Clean" is based on citric and phosphoric acids.

No Nonsense contains hydrochloric acid

Extreme Green is based on aluminium chloride

Cementone Brick and Patio Cleaner is hydrochloric acid based

Geocel Ecochem Brick and Mortar Cleaner is aluminium chloride based.​

Therefore check the label and data available on line before buying.

I missed the suggestion to use hydrochloric acid. I am not sure I know the reason for the suggestion, nor do I fancy washing the bottom of a boat with it!


If the boat were mine I would be looking at trying some simple chemical tests to determine if there was any metallic copper exposed on the surface. A quantitave test would be nice to do but would involve fairly extensive laboratory facilities or a substantial bill from an analyical chemistry laboratory.
 
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If the boat were mine I would be looking at trying some simple chemical tests to determine if there was any metallic copper exposed on the surface. A quantitave test would be nice to do but would involve fairly extensive laboratory facilities or a substantial bill from an analyical chemistry laboratory.

Could you give me an idea of any tests that you had in mind? (I had an old fashioned grammar school education and thus learnt Latin, Classics, History etc - Science was not something that in those days was seen fit for gentlemen to learn about.............)
 
I have a chemistry A level (albeit with a scrape-through grade) to my name. Seem to remember copper sulphate has a distinct turquoise blue colour. Therefor a dab of sulphuric acid on the surface, should result in a bright green/blue spot appearing.

Copper-Sulphate.251203128_std.jpg


Copper sulphate crystals
 
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