Unlicensed boats on the Thames

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Aquafan

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There have never been more unlicensed boats than there are now, It's hard to make a calculated guess as to how many but it must run into thousands.
What are the EA doing about it? is it less or more than previous years either way it's not working.
I know it's not easy eg what do you do about liveaboards, how do you trace the owners address from a boats name if the boats not been licensed before.
Something needs to be done, here are just a couple of thoughts/brainstorming
1) Can we outsource the problem?
2) Would we pay something on top of the license fee for the EA to dedicate more resources to enforce payment ... could we trust the EA to spend it wisely and not divert it to other demands?
3) Could we incentivise lock keepers to be more forceful. I have heard it said they don't get paid enough to take the abuse that enforcement requires and I can understand that.
4) What are the fines for not being licensed? and are they enough?
Ok so maybe none of these are good ideas and we just accept that's the way it is but it grieves me and others to see what's going on.
At least I've got this off my chest
 
With a Slipway next to my property I see it every day especially at weekends. Envag have no one to blame but themselves. It is too expensive and onerous to buy a licence for the odd day out and too complicated what with the BSS requirement etc. Some bloke wants the odd day on the river every now and again, he can't be doing with all the tiddling about and I don't blame him (or her).
 
I saw one River Inspector in 3 weeks from Teddington to Iffley and back. Many unlicensed boats and a lock keeper that wouldn't challenge a NB with a '15' licence. There a a lot of inflatable kayaks on the river, I wonder how many of those are licensed?
 
There are a few unlicensed boats around my stretch of the thames
I do see the ea boats out regular
They stick red tickets on them.
After that it's a long winded process to get revenue.

The lockkeepers I have seen ask for licence proof.I have also seen them give out some paperwork and get the owners details.
 
Its not difficult so no real excuse, either turn up at the first lock and pay the lock keeper or phone the EA and pay by card (licence arrives in email in about 30 mins). When you see a boat picking up paperwork from the lock-keeper it may be because they are paying for a licence, you get a couple of sheets of paper plus a visitors slip.

As a visiting boat you self-declare on the BSS so no issue there either.

We do it as we sea boat and river boat and keep it on a trailer.
 
byron said:
With a Slipway next to my property I see it every day especially at weekends. Envag have no one to blame but themselves. It is too expensive and onerous to buy a licence for the odd day out and too complicated what with the BSS requirement etc. Some bloke wants the odd day on the river every now and again, he can't be doing with all the tiddling about and I don't blame him (or her).
Click to expand...
Perhaps you could collect the fees, keep a commission and send the rest to EA?
 
Ithink C&RT can inpound an unlicenced boat if reported, trouble is there are so many abandoned looking boats where would they keep them all?

Alan
 
Remember as well that the cost of taking cases to court comes out of the waterways budget.

Any fines levied go into the EA central pot, not to waterways , they just get the licence fee ( which the perp usually claims he cannot pay so ends up paying it at £5 a month and the agency has to accept it )

So a case that eats up XYZ enforcement officers time , then EA solicitors time ( billed internally to waterways at £XX per hour as the solicitors are not just for waterways use ) say would cost waterways £5k to get to court. Assuming they win ( not always ) they would get the licence fee of say, £600, paid in tiny instalments and any fine would go to central funds.

See the problem yet ?
 
An unlicensed vehicle in my street wouldn't last a month, an illegally parked vehicle a matter of hours. I'm just a mug who pays his taxes. I have no idea how one government dept. can rule with an iron fist and another appears toothless, but the troops on the ground have my respect and sympathy.
But I'm annoyed as hell with the policy makers.
 
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teddington_lock said:
Remember as well that the cost of taking cases to court comes out of the waterways budget.

Any fines levied go into the EA central pot, not to waterways , they just get the licence fee ( which the perp usually claims he cannot pay so ends up paying it at £5 a month and the agency has to accept it )

So a case that eats up XYZ enforcement officers time , then EA solicitors time ( billed internally to waterways at £XX per hour as the solicitors are not just for waterways use ) say would cost waterways £5k to get to court. Assuming they win ( not always ) they would get the licence fee of say, £600, paid in tiny instalments and any fine would go to central funds.

See the problem yet ?
Click to expand...

The real problem is in trying to believe that a few hours of an enforcement officer's time to record and report an offence and a few hours of an EA in-house solicitor's time to issue a summons can possibly amount to £5,000! And on a successful prosecution costs can be awarded which do not go to central funds. Who's kidding who here?
 
Surely a simple solution to this is simply to say, no license = no passage through any lock.

That won't solve the issue for slum boats that never move but would be a step in the right direction for boaters that do move.

I may have mentioned one of my retirement plans is to buy a narrowboat and spend a couple of years exploring the whole network. Reading this thread just says to me what is the point in buying an EA license when I get to the Thames? I will be gone and back on a canal before they take any enforcement action, and they will allow me through the locks without a license. (tongue in cheek, I will buy a short term license when transiting the Thames)
 
Once apon a time.... :(
You could be pretty certain as a keen young lad, that at some point in your days fishing you would be getting a request from a patrolling water bailiff to see a fishing license.
Especially during the summer and weekends, somebody from the water board or whoever was in charge of the river would patrol the river bank checking for miscreants dodging the 2/6d or whatever the annual charge was.
The river license enforcement is no different.
Ever since the early 1980s when it became government policy to flog everything off and eviscerate public bodies,many financial matters previously undertaken by them were simply left to decay because it generated no revenue for shareholders and would cost money to enforce.
Until you are prepared to spend money to collect the revenue,nothing is going to change. ?
 
teddington_lock said:
Remember as well that the cost of taking cases to court comes out of the waterways budget.

Any fines levied go into the EA central pot, not to waterways , they just get the licence fee ( which the perp usually claims he cannot pay so ends up paying it at £5 a month and the agency has to accept it )

So a case that eats up XYZ enforcement officers time , then EA solicitors time ( billed internally to waterways at £XX per hour as the solicitors are not just for waterways use ) say would cost waterways £5k to get to court. Assuming they win ( not always ) they would get the licence fee of say, £600, paid in tiny instalments and any fine would go to central funds.

See the problem yet ?
Click to expand...

Surely part of the answer is to change the laws and by-laws in line with road trafic acts?

No licence, no fuss boat, boat gone or seized., 30 days grace to get papers in irder or boat sold at public auction/destroyed!

The threat would make many owners, if not all, think harder about risking it. Boats not legally in the water looking abandoned, a h&s concern or an eye sore can be easier dealt with.

Alan

Alan
 
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oldgit said:
Once apon a time.... :(
You could be pretty certain as a keen young lad, that at some point in your days fishing you would be getting a request from a patrolling water bailiff to see a fishing license.
Especially during the summer and weekends, somebody from the water board or whoever was in charge of the river would patrol the river bank checking for miscreants dodging the 2/6d or whatever the annual charge was.
The river license enforcement is no different.
Ever since the early 1980s when it became government policy to flog everything off and eviscerate public bodies,many financial matters previously undertaken by them were simply left to decay because it generated no revenue for shareholders and would cost money to enforce.
Until you are prepared to spend money to collect the revenue,nothing is going to change. ?
Click to expand...

Different times , the thames has two Bailiffs for rod licence inspections. As i have said before some have no licence and are fishing out of season . Also the netting of the river is common unlike the carp now.
There is no action being taken.
 
bumperdump said:
Different times , the thames has two Bailiffs for rod licence inspections.
Click to expand...

Am amazed that those posts still exist and would be still further suprised if that was their sole job,rather than as a minor role in their official jobs,whatever they may be.
When we have been moving around on the the Thames,even in January,have been approached by lock staff requesting to see a license and helpfully providing the required bit of paper.
 
Its clear the EA are basically now working on an honesty system with regard to purchasing boat licences, with the occasional prosecution to make a point.

Problem is too many people, particularly those that do not move their boat during the daytime, are now realising that and have worked out that they need not bother to pay. Worst case they get made an example of and pay up for the current year, quietly pocketing the cash for any previous years they escaped.
 
"few hours of an EA in-house solicitor's time to issue a summons can possibly amount to"

Everything now is charged to ensure an invoice is available to prove exactly where the taxpayers money went.
Even if the two offices are next door to each other.
A decent lawyer could rack up £5k in 5 minutes and 59 minutes of that would be preparing his invoice.
Have lost count of the number of legal cases in other fields that have been thrown out of court and the defendant let off simply because the case presented was a joke which more experienced legal council would have seen as poorly presented and likely to fail.
You average small town solictor on his tod will charge you £200 PH for advice and if he is any good considerably more.
 
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