'Uncertain of position'

[Daydream believer]

None unless you are 100% electronic. Can you rub B2 pencil off a chartplotter, I have never tried.

Tipex

 

[zoidberg]

I think the skill that has been lost is pilotage. People will believe the screen rather than look out the window.
In his case - and he is not alone - he was lacking both in pilotage savvy and a true understanding of what his instruments were telling him.

Aye, that!

I've long held that my best sources of pilotage know-how were the published books of Mike Peyton's cartoons - and I was privileged to meet him at an ExCel London Boat Show on the YBW pavilion, where he was slyly caricaturing Editor Andrew Bray ( who figured in several of his cartoons )
e.g.

 

[RupertW]

8 fathoms straight down?

2 and a half miles

With all the tidal gates and uncertainty of precise speed then the careful hourly dead reckoning was never going to be right about where we were along the coast. Too many variations of speed and direction in the tide charts depending on exactly where we were at each moment. We had turned in toward the land about 3 hours before hoping we’d see St Albans head before hitting it, but no sign of anything and right then DR put us 2 miles inland up the Purbeck Hills.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Maybe someone could invent a system where three base stations at known locations could transmit a pulse at the same time and then the phase difference between the received signals could be compared to give a location. We might need some colourful lines overprinted on our charts but that would add to the fun. Perhaps a music company like Virgin would like to invent it and set up the system.

According to the Melody Maker I used to read in the 60s, Decca was a record company, and Virgin was just a record shop

 

[Davy_S]

I have to laugh, yonks ago i was fishing for Bass near the Lune deeps, now as anyone knows huge ferries use the deeps, it was thick with fog, lucky to see 100 metres, you could hear the rumble of an approaching ferry, i could hear nearby small boats panicking on the radio, they were questioning which way to run! i simply said, look at your echo sounder, there was a bit of a silence, then one of them said 8 feet, i said ok, so you are not going to die are you! they seemed to calm down after that.

 

[savageseadog]

Aye, that!

I've long held that my best sources of pilotage know-how were the published books of Mike Peyton's cartoons - and I was privileged to meet him at an ExCel London Boat Show on the YBW pavilion, where he was slyly caricaturing Editor Andrew Bray ( who figured in several of his cartoons )
e.g.

I do know someone who more or less did that. They had zero sea experience and on passage at night from Holyhead ended up on the rocks next to South Bishop Lighthouse. Their reasoning was that the light gave them something to aim for so when they got there they'd know where they were.

 

[lustyd]

A quick look at vessel finder, for example, however, shows gazillions of yachts off exploring. Bet they are mostly using GPS. And some will be plotting regular fixes on their charts just in case. I see that people are far more wary in unknown waters.

I'm also understanding the star thing.....I've been briefed on icbm navigation many tides ago. But if your phone app fails and you are more than, usually, 15 miles or so offshore there is an alternative way to navigate by stars.......

I do agree there are quite a few actually "navigating" and likely are using GPS. Some of them might have a sextant on board, some of those might have the skills to use it, and some of those might have the supporting tomes on board to do so when they need it. At that point we're probably counting in tens rather than hundreds or thousands. I'm one of them but only due to boredom during Covid, and I won't have a usable almanac next year.
All but a tiny number of those I'd imagine have a phone capable of navigating using the camera and some maths if someone were to create such an app, something that would be a priority if GPS dissapears. If GPS for some reason becomes untenable I would be very surprised if sextant is where we end up. Why would we all go to the bother of manually measuring angles and then inevitably using an app to do the maths and provide almanac data? Why not just let the phone do it all? Not that I agree it's even remotely likely for all of the GNSS systams and ground stations to fail or be blocked. The one scenario where that might happen in the near future would likely leave sailing fairly untenable too.

I used to have similar conversations about air traffic control going down, and the answer was the same. For the most part things would be absolutely fine.

 

[dgadee]

Most boat owners don't go too far. They know where their local rocks are. I don't think they are heads down on the display at all.

 

[Supertramp]

I think the skill that has been lost is pilotage. People will believe the screen rather than look out the window.

Approaching Port Phillip Heads very early one morning some years ago. 'World's youngest ( at the time ) solo non stop around the world' sailor is hove to off the entrance. He calls Lonsdale - Lonsdale asks him for his position. Instead of saying something like ' 5 miles south east of the entrance' he rattles off Lat and Long to ------ three decimal places of a minute of arc.

In his case - and he is not alone - he was lacking both in pilotage savvy and a true understanding of what his instruments were telling him.

I agree with you. We become preoccupied with paper, electronics, windy apps etc instead of reading the sea, the clouds and the wind. You smell land and feel it in the change in wave patterns. The water changes how it behaves with depth. These are not a substitute for knowing where you are but I think many people don't use them.

I recall rounding Cape Wrath in the Decca days in a small boat with almost no visibility in thick fog and no wind. You could hear Duslic rock breaking. We knew where the Cape was (from the radio beacon) but not how far off we were. For a terrifying 20 mins we headed straight for it to get a visual fix, steadily slowing as the backwash increased and the seabirds started to echo. At about 1 knt, we saw the cliff face a couple of boat lengths away. Fix obtained, we set of south. All your instincts scream keep clear but we needed the fix to dead reckon our way south.

Not all headlands or weather support that behaviour! But it stayed with me as a great example of fixing your position.

 

[WindyWindyWindy]

I reckon you could make an electronic "sextant" these days. A clear view of the sky and the gubbins would know where it was to a mile or so.

Electronic navigation could still be astro...

 

[Wansworth]

I reckon you could make an electronic "sextant" these days. A clear view of the sky and the gubbins would know where it was to a mile or so.

Electronic navigation could still be astro...

If I recall correctly in an American pirate film Errol Flyn held the sextant up to the sun and told the heroine where they were?

 

[Supertramp]

If I recall correctly in an American pirate film Errol Flyn held the sextant up to the sun and told the heroine where they were?

Strange to say I once sailed on Errol Flynn's restored Colin Archer yacht in New Zealand so he probably knew what to do with it!!

 

[zoidberg]

If I recall correctly in an American pirate film Errol Flyn held the sextant up to the sun and told the heroine where they were?

Was the actress a dizzy blonde..... or a smart-as-paint redhead?

 

[Wansworth]

Was the actress a dizzy blonde..... or a smart-as-paint redhead?

That detail escapes me,pretty busty?

 

[Graham376]

According to the Melody Maker I used to read in the 60s, Decca was a record company, and Virgin was just a record shop

In my youth, record shops were usually HMV, virgins were something viewed as a challenge

 

[DownWest]

Much ado about nuttin, I will just go back to using Consol..

 

[Juan Twothree]

According to the Melody Maker I used to read in the 60s, Decca was a record company, and Virgin was just a record shop

Records bought from Virgin Records didn't have a hole in the middle.
You had to make it yourself.

 

[zoidberg]

Much ado about nuttin, I will just go back to using Consol..

Ploneis, Bushmills, Stavanger....

 

[DownWest]

Stavanger, last time. Are they still functioning? Doubt it.

 

[johnalison]

I think the skill that has been lost is pilotage. People will believe the screen rather than look out the window.

Approaching Port Phillip Heads very early one morning some years ago. 'World's youngest ( at the time ) solo non stop around the world' sailor is hove to off the entrance. He calls Lonsdale - Lonsdale asks him for his position. Instead of saying something like ' 5 miles south east of the entrance' he rattles off Lat and Long to ------ three decimal places of a minute of arc.

In his case - and he is not alone - he was lacking both in pilotage savvy and a true understanding of what his instruments were telling him.

In all the pan-pans and occasional maydays that I hear each year, I would say that every single one of them gives the position in lat/long. I can't remember the last time I heard someone say something like "one mile south-west of Long Sand Head". Come to think of it, the coastguard, probably in Bangalore for all I know, wouldn't know Long Sand Head from Cape Horn.