boomerangben
Well-known member
Aren’t pension and other financial investments indirectly dependent on GPS providing time stamps for trading and thereby potentially having a far greater impact of future sailing dreams?
'Uncertain of position'
- Thread starter zoidberg
- Start date
Supertramp
Well-known member
Hmmm. Bit different on the West Coast of Scotland, a thick day with 1/2 mile visibility, an onshore wind and children's puzzle clues like "keep the prominent white rock in line with dark heather patch" or similar.
Capsensible's patience comment is good - instead of flying in to a destination at top speed you have to take stock, double check and feel your way in slowly, perhaps with dinghy reconnaissance if needed. Those techniques let you use and discover places that don't have an anchor symbol.
Capsensible's patience comment is good - instead of flying in to a destination at top speed you have to take stock, double check and feel your way in slowly, perhaps with dinghy reconnaissance if needed. Those techniques let you use and discover places that don't have an anchor symbol.
Hermit
Well-known member
Probably worth a read here to get the facts about resilient PNT:
https://rin.org.uk/page/ResilientPNT
https://rin.org.uk/page/ResilientPNT
zoidberg
Well-known member
Interesting to have a peek at 'Hermit's RIN page -
....and muse to myself that the impact assessment would likely involve the boat sinking.
.
Sandy
Well-known member
I had a acquaintance who did something like that, but failed to miss Plymouth Breakwater! It was completed in 1840 and should be on a chart.
SaltyC
Well-known member
Sorry to be pedantic but you need to go to 0.7mm staedler to get 2B leads, a sacrifice on accuracy but the Staedler rubber will remove from the chart unlike the 0.5mm harder lead.
lustyd
Well-known member
I feel like this thread is based on the completely flawed assumption that most boaters need to navigate. They don't any more than car drivers do, and most will quite happily drive the boat out, do a bit of fishing, swimming, drinking, whatever, then return to marina and park. They'll stay between the channel markers and avoid the cardinals, and they'll be safe enough even if anchoring thanks to the depth gauge.
Some people used to carry a road atlas, but local drivers never needed those. The same is true in boating.
Edit to add: for those who do need to navigate, boaters have always used the best solution available. The real question is what to do when GPS fails and charts are no longer printed and you don't have a current almanac on board (or it got wet). The answer is very probably a phone app that can navigate by the stars. ICBMs have been doing it for decades with very little processing power.
Some people used to carry a road atlas, but local drivers never needed those. The same is true in boating.
Edit to add: for those who do need to navigate, boaters have always used the best solution available. The real question is what to do when GPS fails and charts are no longer printed and you don't have a current almanac on board (or it got wet). The answer is very probably a phone app that can navigate by the stars. ICBMs have been doing it for decades with very little processing power.
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lustyd
Well-known member
No, not for at least a decade, and even then we used radio backups, Internet time, local hardware clocks etc. to confirm the time was correct.
savageseadog
Well-known member
There used to be charts with printed silhouettes of approaches and headlands etc.
dunedin
Well-known member
Are you sure ?
capnsensible
Well-known member
I'm fairly with you on this one but most leisure vessel users generally learn to navigate first, then discard what they don't need later. Certainly for local pleasure sailing, I know where I am all the time. As you point out, that's the majority.
A quick look at vessel finder, for example, however, shows gazillions of yachts off exploring. Bet they are mostly using GPS. And some will be plotting regular fixes on their charts just in case. I see that people are far more wary in unknown waters.
I'm also understanding the star thing.....I've been briefed on icbm navigation many tides ago. But if your phone app fails and you are more than, usually, 15 miles or so offshore there is an alternative way to navigate by stars.......
capnsensible
Well-known member
Ships were wood, men were steel.
GHA
Well-known member
Miaow......
sarabande
Well-known member
As an agricultural user, intermittently, of GPS, I hasten to mention that I once was on a saily boat where paper charts were the primary naviguessing method. The owner had an enormous supply of 2B pencils, but they were all circular in cross section, rather than rectangular or hexagonal.
The wanderlust of these items was terrific.
sarabande
Well-known member
in principle, yes. Or possibly, no.
newtothis
Well-known member
Explains why Schrödinger sailed a multihull.
Wansworth
Well-known member
one foolproof method is to adjacent your boat to were you think you should be and ask any passing fisherman,worked for me?
RupertW
Well-known member
My father liked that approach but i remember just how unhelpful it can be. Once when we were 16 hours in fog somewhere between Dartmouth and the Needles we saw a fishing boat and he shouted out, “How far are we from land?”, before they disappeared into the murk. The answer didn’t help.
Frank Holden
Well-known member
I think the skill that has been lost is pilotage. People will believe the screen rather than look out the window.
Approaching Port Phillip Heads very early one morning some years ago. 'World's youngest ( at the time ) solo non stop around the world' sailor is hove to off the entrance. He calls Lonsdale - Lonsdale asks him for his position. Instead of saying something like ' 5 miles south east of the entrance' he rattles off Lat and Long to ------ three decimal places of a minute of arc.
In his case - and he is not alone - he was lacking both in pilotage savvy and a true understanding of what his instruments were telling him.
Approaching Port Phillip Heads very early one morning some years ago. 'World's youngest ( at the time ) solo non stop around the world' sailor is hove to off the entrance. He calls Lonsdale - Lonsdale asks him for his position. Instead of saying something like ' 5 miles south east of the entrance' he rattles off Lat and Long to ------ three decimal places of a minute of arc.
In his case - and he is not alone - he was lacking both in pilotage savvy and a true understanding of what his instruments were telling him.
Stemar
Well-known member
8 fathoms straight down?