UK Sailors And Expats In The EU - Run Up To Friday 29th March 2019 & Beyond?

[greeny]

|My 5 yrs is up next year, after March 29th. When I picked my wife's residence document up today, I asked the lady there what I had to do next year to extend my resinecy. She told me that the camera didn't do that and the procedure is that I go to SEF in Portimao and they take over from there and re-issue whatever is next. I had heard on the grapevine that there was an expectation that you would be portuguese speaking by that time and there was a test, but she and a colleague said that was not necessary although it would be nice if one did. She actually complimented me on my extremely limited Portuguese and said that just showing you had some knowledge of the language would be ok at SEF and that there was no formal test.
Of course, that is now, after March 29th who knows?

 

[nortada]

|My 5 yrs is up next year, after March 29th. When I picked my wife's residence document up today, I asked the lady there what I had to do next year to extend my resinecy. She told me that the camera didn't do that and the procedure is that I go to SEF in Portimao and they take over from there and re-issue whatever is next. I had heard on the grapevine that there was an expectation that you would be portuguese speaking by that time and there was a test, but she and a colleague said that was not necessary although it would be nice if one did. She actually complimented me on my extremely limited Portuguese and said that just showing you had some knowledge of the language would be ok at SEF and that there was no formal test.
Of course, that is now, after March 29th who knows?

Guy I was speaking with earlier today has just got his second 5 year temporary residence certificate and a new fiscal number.

Apparently, having got his first certificate, he surrendered it before heading off into the Med.

On his return he applied for a new 5 year certificate. The clerk noted that he appeared to already have a fiscal number but as he had forgotten it and had no documentation, they gave him a new 5 year certificate and sent him of to the financiers to get a new fiscal number - which he duly did.

From this it would appear that, at present, rather than go for full residencia, it is possible to get a second 5 year period.

Agree after 29 March all bets could be off but the new British Ambassador has gone on record saying he is very hopeful to negotiate a new specially favorable deal between Portugal and the UK for the citizens of both countries post Brexit.

Oh yes, I asked about the need to speak Portuguese and was advised that it was age dependent. When I admitted I was 75, I was asked if I could say Yes, No, Please and Thank you, if so I would pass.

Must sign up for language lessons. :encouragement:

 

[Graham376]

Must sign up for language lessons. :encouragement:

I've been thinking that for 48 years but the advantage of not doing so was I never had an argument with my mother in law

 

[greeny]

I wonder if they would accept sign language if i tell them I am mute. Don't see why not.
On a more serious note, I spoke with another friend today who has been to SEF after 5 yrs and now has been given his 10 yr certificate. No language test or any other knowledge required. He showed it to me and it is not the piece of paper with stars at this stage but a small cardboard fold up certificate with your photo on and your fingerprint. His renewal date is now 2017. This is still not a permanent residency and has to be renewed and clearly shows that.
He knew nothing about a "permanent" residency and he said that the next stage would be Portuguese nationality whereby you would get a passport and plastic identity card the same as the Portuguese do. The requirements for this are much more stringent, good portuguese speaking and writing ability, a knowledge of portuguese history and customs which must be demonstrated in a written test. Don't think I make the grade for that one.
I may call in at SEF later in the week or early next and ask them for the full options available just out of curiosity. It's raining all week so not much else to do.

 

[greeny]

Guy I was speaking with earlier today has just got his second 5 year temporary residence certificate and a new fiscal number.

Apparently, having got his first certificate, he surrendered it before heading off into the Med.

On his return he applied for a new 5 year certificate. The clerk noted that he appeared to already have a fiscal number but as he had forgotten it and had no documentation, they gave him a new 5 year certificate and sent him of to the financiers to get a new fiscal number - which he duly did.

From this it would appear that, at present, rather than go for full residencia, it is possible to get a second 5 year period.

Agree after 29 March all bets could be off but the new British Ambassador has gone on record saying he is very hopeful to negotiate a new specially favorable deal between Portugal and the UK for the citizens of both countries post Brexit.

Oh yes, I asked about the need to speak Portuguese and was advised that it was age dependent. When I admitted I was 75, I was asked if I could say Yes, No, Please and Thank you, if so I would pass.

Must sign up for language lessons. :encouragement:

Hi Nortada, sounds like he was issued a complete new "identity" rather than them go to the trouble of trying to find his old one and resurrect his fiscal number. From what I was told at the camera and from a friend today, there is no second 5yr, it is a 10yr which you go to SEF for. Sounds like we're slowly unravelling the facts here. All good stuff for the future. Or at least until 29th March.

 

[Tin Tin]

Re: Open Letter To The Moderators - Please Make This Thread A Sticky.

This might be on interest. It's certainly one to watch.....

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-law-proposed-to-safeguard-uk-citizens-healthcare-abroad-after-brexit?utm_source=00d6f092-7cb6-49d1-a7d0-c2c16dc8b5f7&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediate

Incidentally, we have just used the DWP S1 form (as pensioners) to transfer our healthcare to the Greek EFKA national system (it used to be called IKA). It's a pretty torturous process but if anyone wants to know how to do it PM me.

Application to join the French CPAM healthcare using the DWP S1 being processed.
Process is painfully slow (3 months in), but at least progress is being made.
Hope it is sorted by March 29th.

 

[Graham376]

Hi Nortada, sounds like he was issued a complete new "identity" rather than them go to the trouble of trying to find his old one and resurrect his fiscal number. From what I was told at the camera and from a friend today, there is no second 5yr, it is a 10yr which you go to SEF for. Sounds like we're slowly unravelling the facts here. All good stuff for the future. Or at least until 29th March.

He had surrendered his first residency part way through and has to complete 5 years to be eligible for permanent residency or citizenship, that's why it was granted a second time. Once the 5 year Camara residence is completed there's no renewal but no hurry to go to the next step with SEF, mine had run out long before I applied for permanent status.

 

[greeny]

Thanks Graham that sounds like the explanation for a second 5 years being granted.

Just a thought for all those under the radar in Portugal who are waiting to see what happens.

The more British people who obtain their residency and get officially on record with the Portuguese authorities, the more quantifiable becomes the size of the issue for them after Brexit.
The bigger the issue, the bigger the potential losses if they decide to do something damaging to the expat position here.
The larger the affected community, the more they'll consider the effects of any action taken.
The same applies in the other countries being discussed here.

 

[nortada]

Just a thought for all those under the radar in Portugal who are waiting to see what happens.

The more British people who obtain their residency and get officially on record with the Portuguese authorities, the more quantifiable becomes the size of the issue for them after Brexit.
The bigger the issue, the bigger the potential losses if they decide to do something damaging to the expat position here.
The larger the affected community, the more they'll consider the effects of any action taken.
The same applies in the other countries being discussed here.

Good point, although I am not sure that that kind of pressure would have much currency in Portugal?

Met up with a non-boatie bunch of expats yesterday, who advise that the penny has dropped and there is now a big surge in people getting temporary residencia; with long queues and people bring turned away and told to come back tomorrow.

 

[Grehan]

France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

In view of the size of this thread I was tempted to start a new one, but . . . I've just had this message -

I've just received confirmation from Philippe Gomis (Philip Gomis, délégué régional de la chambre de commerce et d’industrie franco-britannique de Bourgogne – Franche-Comté) that Matthew Lodge,* British Ambassador,* will be coming to Dijon to meet British people* living in Burgundy on Monday 10/12/2018.**5:30 pm for a* welcome drink and then from 6pm till 7pm for* Q&A about Brexit and the* status of British people living in France.**We don't know the exact venue yet but could I ask you to spread the news and also PM me your*email addresses and those of your British contacts who would be interested so that Philippe can inform the embassy who will then* send those interested in participating an official invitation.

Back in the UK for a while, I can't actually make Dijon but posting here for those that might be able to. PM me and I'll pass on.

 

[nortada]

Re: France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

In view of the size of this thread I was tempted to start a new one, but . . . I've just had this message -

I've just received confirmation from Philippe Gomis (Philip Gomis, délégué régional de la chambre de commerce et d’industrie franco-britannique de Bourgogne – Franche-Comté) that Matthew Lodge,* British Ambassador,* will be coming to Dijon to meet British people* living in Burgundy on Monday 10/12/2018.**5:30 pm for a* welcome drink and then from 6pm till 7pm for* Q&A about Brexit and the* status of British people living in France.**We don't know the exact venue yet but could I ask you to spread the news and also PM me your*email addresses and those of your British contacts who would be interested so that Philippe can inform the embassy who will then* send those interested in participating an official invitation.

Back in the UK for a while, I can't actually make Dijon but posting here for those that might be able to. PM me and I'll pass on.

The British Ambassador has been very active trying to reassure the Brits in Portugal so it will be interesting to hear what Matthew Lodge has to say.

Is it possible for Brits in France to get a 5 year Certificate of Residency along the same lines as is available in Portugal?

 

[Tony Cross]

Re: France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

Here in the Lassithi district of Crete the ex-pats association (INCO) has organised a meeting (on 30th Nov) with the new British Vice-Consul in Herakion. She will be accompanied by someone from the British Embassy in Athens responsible for Brexit. The meeting is to allow ex-pats in Lassithi to ask any questions they may have about the procedures and processes post-Brexit (as far as anyone knows them).

If I learn anything that's relevant to sailors I'll report back.

 

[PhilipH]

New to Portugal and the issues. Apologies if the info is buried elsewhere in the thread, but a few questions to which answers would be much appreciated.
All are about the 5 years temporary residence.
1 A berthing contract at a marina will be accepted but how long does the contract have to be for?
2 Do you have to demonstrate having been in Portugal for a period before applying, and if so, how long?
3 Is it ok to get the temporary residence and then scoot off for a year or so to other parts, say, of the Med
4 Currently in Albufeira - can one apply here or is Lagoa a regional office for applications?

Cheers

 

[nortada]

New to Portugal and the issues. Apologies if the info is buried elsewhere in the thread, but a few questions to which answers would be much appreciated.
All are about the 5 years temporary residence.
1. A berthing contract at a marina will be accepted but how long does the contract have to be for?
2. Do you have to demonstrate having been in Portugal for a period before applying, and if so, how long?
3. Is it ok to get the temporary residence and then scoot off for a year or so to other parts, say, of the Med
4. Currently in Albufeira - can one apply here or is Lagoa a regional office for applications?

Cheers

Welcome to Portugal.

If your read some of the background you will soon appreciate that different parts of the Algarve take a very different approach to issuing a temporary (5 year) CERTIFICADO DE REGISTO DE CIDADAO DA UNIAO EUROPEIA issued by the REPUBLICA PORTUGUESA by the local camara (local government office) Because there is so much confusion I am quoting the title of the document.

My answers are specific to Lagos (at #353 Greeny relates a very different experience at The Lagoa Camara).

1. Lagos Camara will accept a 6 month berthing contract as a residence and the marina reception as a postal address. They will need to see your UK Passport but you do not have to have a fiscal number.

2. NO but you may be asked what are your intentions in Portugal.

3. So far as Lagos is concerned, YES. You can revolk your certificate at any time. But it doesn’t follow that this certificate will permit you to enter any other EU country. Schengen could be the issue here?

4. Albufeira is a city with it’s own camara. Remember you have to apply to the camara you reside in.

Hope this helps and to add to our overall knowledge would be v grateful for any feed-back you can provide.

 

[greeny]

New to Portugal and the issues. Apologies if the info is buried elsewhere in the thread, but a few questions to which answers would be much appreciated.
All are about the 5 years temporary residence.
1 A berthing contract at a marina will be accepted but how long does the contract have to be for?
2 Do you have to demonstrate having been in Portugal for a period before applying, and if so, how long?
3 Is it ok to get the temporary residence and then scoot off for a year or so to other parts, say, of the Med
4 Currently in Albufeira - can one apply here or is Lagoa a regional office for applications?

Cheers

I'll try to give you some answers but others who have been through the process in Albufeira may have better info than me.
First, you need to understand that whilst the process is a "national" one, all Camaras seem to asking for different things to enable one to qualify. Lagoa and Lagos are distinctly different as you can read earlier in the thread. I will give you my take on Lagoa Camara. Lagos appears to much more lenient in its requirements than Lagoa is.

1. and 2. Seeing as they ask for a residence document from our village president to prove you've lived there for at least 6 months I would assume that a contract for 6 months may be the minimum.
3. The residence certificate is for people who live in Portugal. Don't tell them your plans or they may refuse you if you are not living here. What you do once you get the certificate is up to you.
4. Albufeira has its' own Camara so I would start off by going there and asking if you can apply. You do need to apply in the area you're living. The location can be found on the internet or I'm sure the marina office can tell you where it is.

Up to now no-one has posted about Albufeira and what is required so it may be easy like Lagos or somewhat more difficult like Lagoa was for us.
Take all the documents that you can pull together that demonstrate you live here. Take your fiscal card with number. Do you have a phone contract here with your address on . Have you bought any large items and had them delivered to you at the marina that show your name and address.
Maybe they won't ask for anything but Lagoa certainly wanted more than just an address on a marina contract whereas Lagos seems happy with the bare minimum of evidence.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Here a interesting point you all like to concider , re will you still have free moment if your a resident in say Portugal.
If you have residence in a country that also issued ID cards , your able to travel using the ID card in which case who to say how long you have stayed ,
There is a but ,
if your on a boat or RV there may want to see your passport . Any time your checked .
In the mean time I'm chilled out till next March , have another to stress about weather wise , what a stinking stormy summer some of us have had ,
More boats have been damage/sunk this year then any other year I can remember in 28 years of Med sailing . ( hang on , this is still a sailing forum isn't it )

 

[nortada]

Here a interesting point you all like to concider, re will you still have free moment if your a resident in say Portugal.
If you have residence in a country that also issued ID cards , your able to travel using the ID card in which case who to say how long you have stayed ,

There is a but, if your on a boat or RV there may want to see your passport . Anytime your checked.

Portugal has ID cards, which have to be carried at all times.

Brits without an ID card are supposed to carry their passport as proof of identity.

Unlike the 10 year residency permit, the 5 year Certificate of Residency does not have a photograph so it could be assumed that passports will still have to be carried.

This could become significant if stopped, when driving, by the GNR, who may wish to see your driving license. This area of interest, has been touched on, in earlier posts and it has been suggested that the best solution could be; when driving in Portugal, carry your UK driving license and British Passport but leave your Certificate of Residency at home - unless you are driving from Spain into Portugal.

Until post Brexit nobody knows, but having a 5 year Portuguese Republic Certificate of Residency should permit continued access to Portugal and freedom of movement within that country.

To suggest anymore is just speculation so it will be interesting to see how a Brit with temporaty Residencia gets on. Possibly by trying to book into a Spanish Marina (Ayamonte) or flying from the UK into an EU (Schengen) State, without a visa.

It is possible that, post Brexit, airlines will be unwilling to sell tickets without evidence of residencia or a visa.

Those using the car ferry from the UK to Santander should be OK; provided that their Certificate of Residency and driving license are not inspected at the same time. Then there is the question of British car insurance in Portugal.

Only time will tell but as always, different officials (police) will respond in totally different ways!

Simple solution, post Brexit; don’t drive a British registered car in Portugal?

 

[Graham376]

The Portuguese permanent residence card with photo can not be used as a travel document, only the Citizen ID cards replace passports. Photocopy of passport can be carried instead of original for in-country use but photo driving license was OK with GNR when I was pulled at roadside checks.

UK car insurance can be had via Abbeygate Gibraltar according to their adverts on Kiss FM.

 

[nortada]

As an aside, a British driving license is becoming more and more acceptable for identification.

For example, Brits in Portugal aged 65 or over can travel for half price on all trains on production of either their driving license or passport.

 

[Graham376]

As an aside, a British driving license is becoming more and more acceptable for identification.

For example, Brits in Portugal aged 65 or over can travel for half price on all trains on production of either their driving license or passport.

15 euro Faro to Lisbon, first class walk on fare with reserved seat. Manchester to London (same distance) first class walk on fare would be £150 this afternoon.