Uk borders agency - is this a record?

Skents

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Joined
18 Jan 2005
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253
Location
SW UK
www.theiguana.co.uk
We have just had our seventh visit of the year from the rubber suited boys and girls of the UK Borders Agency and we are rapidly losing our sense of humour!

Six of the visits have been in our home port of Falmouth (or elsewhere in Carrick Roads) and one was a boarding at sea off the Lizard on a return trip from the Scillies. On that occasion they swabbed our boat for traces of explosives and drugs.

To be honest, we are getting rather fed up.

We have been told that we are regularly targeted because we have an offshore capable boat and "don't look like the usual type who can afford an up-together offshore yacht". It really is getting beyond a joke.

On another thread, someone said that the anti-Borders Agency sentiment shared by some sections of the sailing community was simply paranoia. We feel that it is justifiable to feel harrassed. How would forumites feel if a members of government agency dressed like unarmed commandos knocked on the door of their home seven times in a year and demanded to know where they had been and what they had been up to?

We are a husband and wife with a teenage son on board, we are all British by birth and have never had a brush with the law (apart from one speeding fine for doing 39mph in a 30mph zone). The actions of the UK Borders Agency is far more likely to alienate people like us than persuade us to report any "unusual activities".

In our opinion the UK Borders Agency is a disorganised shambles. Why call on the same innocent family on the same boat seven times in a year if they are keeping proper records?
 
Six of the visits have been in our home port of Falmouth (or elsewhere in Carrick Roads) and one was a boarding at sea off the Lizard on a return trip from the Scillies. On that occasion they swabbed our boat for traces of explosives and drugs.

That cheers me up for next year, never made the water this year so missed out. My only hope is that we are only 8 metre, but still a blue water boat, complete with Hassler hanging off the stern.



Brian
 
These guys are starting to piss me off... unfortunatley there does not appear to be much we can do about it... aside from seeking a change in the legislation...

The relevant legislation is the Customs and Excise Managment Act of 1979... (CEMA fer short..)

In particular sections 27 and 72....

Section 27 gives the basic powers for boarding by officers in designated Ports...

27 Officers’ powers of boarding .
(1)At any time while a ship is within the limits of a port, or an aircraft is at [F1an aerodrome], or [F2a vehicle is—.
(a)entering, leaving or about to leave the United Kingdom,.
(b)within the prescribed area,.
(c)within the limits of or entering or leaving a port or any land adjacent to a port and occupied wholly or mainly for the purpose of activities carried on at the port,.
(d)at, entering or leaving an aerodrome,.
(e)at, entering or leaving an approved wharf, transit shed, customs warehouse or free zone, or.
(f)at, entering or leaving any such premises as are mentioned in subsection (1) of section 112 below,.
any officer] and any other person duly engaged in the prevention of smuggling may board the ship, aircraft or vehicle and remain therein and rummage and search any part thereof.


Section 72 deals with "Coasting Ships" and the ability to demand any documents.....

72 Additional powers of officers in relation to coasting ships.

(1)The proper officer may examine any goods carried or to be carried in a coasting ship—.
(a)at any time while they are on board the ship; or.
(b)at any place in the United Kingdom to which the goods have been brought for shipment in, or at which they have been unloaded from, the ship..
(2)For the purpose of examining any goods in pursuance of subsection (1) above, the proper officer may require any container to be opened or unpacked; and any such opening or unpacking and any repacking shall be done by or at the expense of the proprietor of the goods..
(3)The proper officer—.
(a)may board and search a coasting ship at any time during its voyage;.
(b)may at any time require any document which should properly be on board a coasting ship to be produced or brought to him for examination;.
and if the master of the ship fails to produce or bring any such document to the proper officer when required, he shall be liable on summary conviction to a penalty of [F1level 2 on the standard scale].


So, in summation, I think these two peices of legislation grant a pretty much defacto licence to board our vessels on any coastal passage.. as well as demand documents related to the ownership and registration of the vessel.. and the people who are in control of that vessel.

Here is the act in full.. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1979/cukpga_19790002_en_1
 
We have been told that we are regularly targeted because we have an offshore capable boat and "don't look like the usual type who can afford an up-together offshore yacht". It really is getting beyond a joke. ?

So if you 'look like you can afford it' you are less likely to get stopped ?

Could someone please tell these idiots that the drug runners are the ones *WITH* friggin money!
 
Licensed hooliganism

I don't think its the legislation that's the problem. Its hard to argue that they should NOT have the right to board where necessary and occasionally at random as a deterrent.

But they should definitely be keeping records and indeed referring to their records before boarding vessels again and again. Perhaps Skents was too welcoming the first time?!

Seems they need to learn some "Intelligence led policing".

Don't get any excitement like that up here in NE Scotland, probably too cold for 'em.
 
Photodog. What Documents?

Quote: (a)may board and search a coasting ship at any time during its voyage;.
(b)may at any time require any document which should properly be on board a coasting ship to be produced or brought to him for examination;.
and if the master of the ship fails to produce or bring any such document to the proper officer when required, he shall be liable on summary conviction to a penalty of [F1level 2 on the standard scale].
[/COLOR]

So, in summation, I think these two peices of legislation grant a pretty much defacto licence to board our vessels on any coastal passage.. as well as demand documents related to the ownership and registration of the vessel.. and the people who are in control of that vessel.

Here is the act in full.. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1979/cukpga_19790002_en_1[/QUOTE]


What evidence can you show that private yachts on coastal passages in home waters are required to carry "documents related to the ownership and registration of the vessel.. and the people who are in control of that vessel"?
 
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Try contacting a pressure group such as the National Council for Civil Liberties. In the end, any fuss you try to make on your own is probably just going to be ignored. The laws quoted are pretty clear, so what you need is an organisation with the skills and resources to challenge those right up to European law.

What you are being subjected to is unreasonable so you should pursue this not just for yourself but for everyone else.
 
In our opinion the UK Borders Agency is a disorganised shambles. Why call on the same innocent family on the same boat seven times in a year if they are keeping proper records?
If you are seriously upset, spend £500 on registering as the Parliamentary candidate for the "Stop the eBorders Bullys" political party. Then track down where these black suited thugs live and visit them each Sunday morning at 8am to ask if you will be getting their vote in the 2010 general election.
 
What evidence can you show that private yachts on coastal passages in home waters are required to carry "documents related to the ownership and registration of the vessel.. and the people who are in control of that vessel"?

Well thats the problem isnt it?

The act uses the term... "properly be on board a coasting ship" in relation to documents... so for instance if the vessel is a Part 1 or otherwise registered... then you would expect to carry the relevent documentation to support this...

I think the big question is about carrying personal Identification....

My opinion, would be that a "reasonable man" would expect that the master of a British registered vessel would be expected to carry some identification...

But I cant see anything that indicates what the total of documents are that would "properly be on board a coasting ship" so I suspect that really this is going to end up with the Judge in court determining what these documents are...

So, I say " I think" because IMHO a court would think it is reasonable that the master and crew of a coasting vessel would be able to identify themselves whilst engaged in the piloting or managment of said.



We view the production of documents in relation to our normal shoreside experiences of dealing with the police... wereby we are under no obligation to carry personal identification.. (Though we are obliged to provide our name etc if asked by the police...) but at sea, I would suggest that there could be numerous good reasons why the courts would think it reasonable that we would carry identification.

I do also feel that there are lots of good arguements why would should not be expected to do so.... ie; the boat is unregistered, there are no legal qualifications required to skipper a small private boat... etc etc...
 
Get a visitor's book, and ask them to sign in before you answer any questions. You need to know who is on your vessel.
 
We were liveaboards for three month this year and although we were not boarded we noticed "things", like the almost daily (wwek day) visits by customs and UKBA people asking questions of the marina staff about boats and their owners - all a bit sinister
 
But we can't even get our Policement to wear their ID numbers (as they are legally required to) so what chance these guys will reveal their ID's?

But it would be interesting to ask your MP what (if any) records are kept of stop & search - including outcomes. There is no point in doing it if no data is gathered, or if the searches are ineffective - as they probably are.
 
Write to your MP stating clearly that you understand that these people can board your vessel at any time but you feel your experiences represent a waste of customs assets and taxpayers money.
 
the legislation quoted above refers to vessels engaged in the coasting trade, ie commercial vessels, not to private yachts.
 
the legislation quoted above refers to vessels engaged in the coasting trade, ie commercial vessels, not to private yachts.

Yeah, I see were your coming from with that!:D

But Section 163 is there get out fo jail free card...

163 Power to search vehicles or vessels .
(1)Without prejudice to any other power conferred by the Customs and Excise Acts 1979, where there are reasonable grounds to suspect that any vehicle or vessel is or may be carrying any goods which are—.
(a)chargeable with any duty which has not been paid or secured; or.
(b)in the course of being unlawfully removed from or to any place; or.
(c)otherwise liable to forfeiture under the customs and excise Acts,.
any officer or constable or member of Her Majesty’s armed forces or coastguard may stop and search that vehicle or vessel.
(2)If when so required by any such officer, constable or member the person in charge of any such vehicle or vessel refuses to stop or to permit the vehicle or vessel to be searched, he shall be liable on summary conviction to a penalty of [F1level 3 on the standard scale].



And of course if you dont agree with them...

section 164 gives them the right to strip search.

So.... I think I'll just carry my passport... better that than a finger up me arse.
 
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