Bouba
Well-known member
Depends, what’s she want?
UK’s biggest warship suffers propeller shaft damage off south coast after setting sail for US
- Thread starter Aeolus
- Start date
Poignard
Well-known member
Look here, I don't mean to be rude, but do I know you?
SaltIre
Well-known member
Do you mean Wing Commander Crabbe?
With a name like Crabbe he must be an RAF Officer; Shirley.
Bouba
Well-known member
I still remember when a joke has run it’s course ...has this one???
Kukri
Well-known member
I’m told, by a serving Type 45 officer, that the radar is incredibly good. He just wishes the RN had enough engines to go round.
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Bouba
Well-known member
Ok..gone over this thread..so I want to tie up some loose ends...Prince of Wales was going to America to do F35B training...QE doesn’t need to go because she’s already qualified...also QE is getting ready to come down my way for CSG22...the dry dock in Scotland has a very low bridge and the carriers can only fit under in extremely low tides (stupidity of a high degree)...the other problem is that PWLS will be carry ordnance so that will restrict where she can go
SaltIre
Well-known member
Can ordnance not be unloaded at DM Crombie which is three miles up-river from Rosyth Naval Dockyard?
Bouba
Well-known member
I’m sure every option has been considered
SaltIre
Well-known member
...by the MOD who two days ago were unable to confirm if Amsterdam is nearer Portsmouth than is Rosyth.
I'm sure the Dutch will be able to accommodate the ordnance.
btw Glen Mallon Jetty on Loch Long was modified to accommodate the Queen Elizabeth class carriers.
SaltyC
Well-known member
The latest excuse from the MOD is shortage of grease on the prop shaft. Things have changed in the last 30 years as shaft seal and plummer blocks all ran on oil baths / seals, admittedly we only had 25000 SHP.
I suspect the MOD have reverted 70 years and are 'making smoke ' to cover the truth (v embarrasing).
I suspect the MOD have reverted 70 years and are 'making smoke ' to cover the truth (v embarrasing).
Bajansailor
Well-known member
A silly question probably, but how do they allow for a large tidal range with those impressive side overhangs?
I am wondering if they have large Yokohama type floating fenders to hold the vessel sufficiently far off the quayside, so that the overhangs don't bash the quay at low tide?
I am wondering if they have large Yokohama type floating fenders to hold the vessel sufficiently far off the quayside, so that the overhangs don't bash the quay at low tide?
Uricanejack
Well-known member
Might be if she was still using coal for bunkers.
Sounds like a reporter who hasn’t a clue getting info from an insider who isn’t much wiser.
I would think even the RN would be using lube oil now, and if environmentally friendly bio degradable oil in shaft seals.
Loss of oil pressure to a shaft bearing would be a problem. A shaft with with slow speed RPM, It would have to run hot for quite some time before serious damage occurred.
Good ER watch keeping routine should be able to spot a problem developing before it get serious.
At the other end of the scale. A turbo bearing probably would fail almost immediately after Oil pressure was lost. Or be seriously damaged.
Traditionally. (MN I expect RN probably similar)
If problem is detected.
Bridge should be notified immediately, with request for permission to reduce speed and or shut it down.
Permission would normally be granted unless safety of vessel is an issue. in which caseit may be delayed until vessel is in location to safely reduce speed or shut down.
After shutting down, the bearing can be opened up and checked by ship engineers. provided the white metal is not gone shaft is probably ok. If replacement parts available bearing can be overhauled and rebuilt relatively easily, possible even by ships crew. figuring out why and sorting so it doesn't occur again might be more complex.
If shaft is scored. much bigger problem. requiring specialized tech and tools to regrind shaft.
It can actually be done with shaft pulled just far enough to clear blocks.
In some case it can even be done without having to dry dock. depends on the ability deballast and to trim vessel when light to by head until shaft is clear of water(might not be possible with ACC stern tube position .) or by creating a temporary cofferdam outside the hull.
Gibeltarik
Active member
All very clear and absolutely on message - but - why send divers down for a inboard shaft bearing problem. Dinged propeller or damaged P or A bracket more likely. See my post 54 - and the known sensitivity of shaft alignment in her sister ship.
penfold
Well-known member
Pretty much that; navies with carriers tend to have superdooper Yokohamas to avoid quayside/sponson interaction.
Divers will give the prop, shaft and stern seal a visual check for obvious damage, foreign objects etc. We do not know QE had problems with alignment, MoD have never elaborated.
Kukri
Well-known member
Interesting suggestion here that she departed with one shaft out of operation:
HMS Prince of Wales suffers technical issue after sailing from Portsmouth | Navy Lookout
Actually, just glancing through this publication - originally titled “Save the Royal Navy!” - turns up one horror story after another :
The Royal Navy’s Type 45 destroyers – status report | Navy Lookout
Maintenance problems for the Royal Navy mount up | Navy Lookout
It is notable that the “fix” for the Type 45 disaster does not fix it.
There is no plan to replace the WR21 gas turbines which have repeatedly tripped out under load. All that is being done is to replace the two diesel generators with three, so that a gas turbine tripping out does not throw an excessive load on the diesel generator sets and trip them in turn leaving the destroyer as a “dead ship” (a technical term, but one which would become literally true in combat), which is what has been happening. The the ships can now operate at low speed as diesel ships, leaving the unreliable gas turbines to provide “sprint capability” (though the risk of breakdowns remains so high that the same publication reports, cheerfully, that HMS Defender actually achieved 30 knots on deployment in the Black Sea).
HMS Prince of Wales suffers technical issue after sailing from Portsmouth | Navy Lookout
Actually, just glancing through this publication - originally titled “Save the Royal Navy!” - turns up one horror story after another :
The Royal Navy’s Type 45 destroyers – status report | Navy Lookout
Maintenance problems for the Royal Navy mount up | Navy Lookout
It is notable that the “fix” for the Type 45 disaster does not fix it.
There is no plan to replace the WR21 gas turbines which have repeatedly tripped out under load. All that is being done is to replace the two diesel generators with three, so that a gas turbine tripping out does not throw an excessive load on the diesel generator sets and trip them in turn leaving the destroyer as a “dead ship” (a technical term, but one which would become literally true in combat), which is what has been happening. The the ships can now operate at low speed as diesel ships, leaving the unreliable gas turbines to provide “sprint capability” (though the risk of breakdowns remains so high that the same publication reports, cheerfully, that HMS Defender actually achieved 30 knots on deployment in the Black Sea).
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Uricanejack
Well-known member
Suspected shaft problem. Diver inspection, probably focused on shaft seal and prop looking for ether confirmation of oil leak or damage or to eliminate those possibilities. would be pretty much expected routine. External problem could be part of cause of internal problem. They wont know until they complete a thorough investigation. This might include a more comprehensive underwater inspection looking for signs if there was a suspected possibility of contact with something. to confirm or eliminate.
Doesn't really mean anything more than an investigation of the problem is being conducted.
Uricanejack
Well-known member
Interesting picture showing only port side producing a wash. presumably on one shaft. Many possibilities why.
Unlikely to have sailed intending to use only one shaft to proceed out of channel unless it was a pre planned trip to go for repair of a pre existing problem
One escort tug attached astern. quite a common practice with large vessels problem or no problem JIK. No idea what RN or Port policy is.
Murphy's law.
Problems are most likely to occur, when they are most inconvenient.
Ie. just after departure, particularly after some kind of work or inspection has been carried out. I'm sure the RN is no more immune from murphy's law than NASSA was.
Kukri
Well-known member
Criticism of the RN is shooting fish in a barrel; the state of the Service is almost if not indeed entirely the fault of the private contractors who now handle everything for the RN from recruitment through harbour towage to maintenance. As with most aspects of life in Britain, the massive scale of genteel corruption passes almost unnoticed because the process has been gradual.
We have been robbed with fountain pens.
We have been robbed with fountain pens.
penfold
Well-known member
The problem with T45 is substantively fixed by fitting an extra generator set; 99% of running will be done on diesel only, any remaining capriciousness of the WR21 won't matter much. The central problem with the propulsion appears to have been a desire to be too clever by half and blaming Geoff Hoon, while amusing, excuses whoever specified the system.
Bouba
Well-known member
A single wash on her port side and a tug attached to her port side....could she simply be turning to starboard ? A still photograph is proof of nothing