Two-handed MOB - do what first, then what next?

[Babylon]

We would aspire to being independent while at sea ie if a problem develops we would hope to solve it ourselves. So I virtually fall overboard a few times a season and leave the crew whoever they are, to recover my sodden likeness. Thanks to a few wise posters here who highlighted the difficulty of hauling a recovered casualty back on board, we also then attempt to lift a helpless heavy heap on board - best tackle & best method.

Good advice.

Next weekend will see me in the oggin, somewhere at slack water with the boat moored, wearing a drysuit and manual lifejacket and tied with some rope to the boat to stop me drifting off, while my girlfriend attempts to haul me out the water using a recovery tackle.

Our new dedicated six-block MOB recovery tackle is permanently rigged under the boom: unclip the 'load' end from under the gooseneck, secure it to casualty's lifejacket D-ring (or with dedicated strops under the armpits and knees if casualty is wearing no LJ and is weak with cold and exhaustion) and haul down from the end secured to the end of the boom.

The hardest part will be for my girlfriend to first reach down the topsides from the cockpit to secure it to me first!

 

[prv]

Our new dedicated six-block MOB recovery tackle is permanently rigged under the boom:
[...]
The hardest part will be for my girlfriend to first reach down the topsides from the cockpit to secure it to me first!

I suggest you try it on a breezy day with the mainsail up, and then reevaluate what the hardest part is.

At least you're not planning to completely abandon control of the sail by disconnecting the mainsheet, as some people suggest.

Pete

 

[jwilson]

I have just read the last couple of pages and again am seeing people forgetting to do the most important thing which is take two seconds to press the MOB button on what ever piece of electronic nav gear you are running AND DO IT FIRST.

You can only save the person onboard if you can find them.

Why do most of these lists omit this step? I am a a bit of a luddite but usually have a simple Garmin 76 running by the wheel. Do most people not have a MOB button?

Perhaps because the MOB function is designed to take you back to the exact spot above the seabed where the button was pressed, whilst the actual MOB is (in UK waters at least) drifting away from this spot at anything from zero to 5+ knots, depending on where you are and the state of the tide.

I'm not against hitting a MOB button or the DSC red button, but unless I knew it was non-tidal or slack water I would prefer not to use GPS to try and find someone. I'd prefer to get the boat back to the person fast, and concentrate on boathandling and keeping an eye on the MOB rather than the electronic stuff.

 

[TQA]

Perhaps because the MOB function is designed to take you back to the exact spot above the seabed where the button was pressed, whilst the actual MOB is (in UK waters at least) drifting away from this spot at anything from zero to 5+ knots, depending on where you are and the state of the tide.

I'm not against hitting a MOB button or the DSC red button, but unless I knew it was non-tidal or slack water I would prefer not to use GPS to try and find someone. I'd prefer to get the boat back to the person fast, and concentrate on boathandling and keeping an eye on the MOB rather than the electronic stuff.

But that still gives you a starting point to work out where the MOB might now be assuming downwind drift and tidal flow. This would cut down the search area dramatically.

 

[l'escargot]

But that still gives you a starting point to work out where the MOB might now be assuming downwind drift and tidal flow. This would cut down the search area dramatically.

And if you can't find them or get the boat back to them, the first question the rescue services will ask will be "Where did they go in" - to say "I don't know" wouldn't be a good answer.

 

[prv]

And if you can't find them or get the boat back to them, the first question the rescue services will ask will be "Where did they go in" - to say "I don't know" wouldn't be a good answer.

Indeed - they have software to model drift of boats and bodies, and I hear it's really quite accurate these days. An accurate time and position to start from is required; this is why I would trigger the DSC distress transmission even if I couldn't answer the subsequent voice call.


Pete

 

[jwilson]

And if you can't find them or get the boat back to them, the first question the rescue services will ask will be "Where did they go in" - to say "I don't know" wouldn't be a good answer.

I didn't say I wouldn't use the MOB button or the DSC button, just not the first or second things I'd be doing. And once you press the DSC button the position to 3 decimal places goes to the CG, doesn't it. Also the plotter track will show the sudden tack, circles etc.

In most UK coastal scenarios, outside help will be at least 15 minutes and maybe an hour or two or even more away. You left aboard are there right now - it's your job to stay with the MOB and get him out if at all possible. On my and many other boats going below to the radio and plotter which has the MOB button takes your eye off the MOB.

I'm confident I can get the boat back very close to where the MOB is fast, and bung in a lifebuoy and danbuoy. Then I'd start sorting out to get ready to try to retrieve him. Notice I say TRY.

Left alone on deck, if the MOB was inert, it would be time for radio etc., as there is absolutely no guarantee I'd safely get him back unaided. I might just manage it in which case I can cancel the Mayday. Whichever, with a big danbuoy with light/drogue in the water, I won't lose his position in the moving-with-the-tide water, which is far more important than the GPS MOB ground position.

If the MOB is functional, I will probably be able to retrieve him myself. From actual practice with a big human in the water it will probably take me ten minutes, but I will have a line on him in two/three minutes.

The curious thing is that the bigger and more modern and usually better equipped the boat, the more difficult it is to actually get a MOB back aboard. On a small old low-freeboard no-guardwires boat it's quite easy, just by grabbing and pulling from the lee side, helped by a bit of adrenaline. On a modern AWB that's impossible - you need a "system".

 

[Daydream believer]

Indeed - they have software to model drift of boats and bodies, and I hear it's really quite accurate these days. An accurate time and position to start from is required; this is why I would trigger the DSC distress transmission even if I couldn't answer the subsequent voice call.


Pete

But an epirb would be drifting along side or parallel to them all the time
Trouble with MOB buttons is that someone has to know what button to push. At night or with steamed up / damp glasses that is not so easy in a panic
I have had my gps for years but if you asked me right now i would not recall what button it is
Hit the wrong one & some thing could go wrong- as it surely would have already
At least a DSC button is easy to find & press but i still think it could go ignored if no voice message sent
I have sent DSC messages to CG & had no reply
On using my mobile to CG comment came back " oh yeah did get a DSC a little while ago" no explanation why ignored
But do not think by that item that i believe mobile phones any use for reliable distress calls
In our area a couple of coke tins & a length of string would work better than a mobile

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Left alone on deck, if the MOB was inert, it would be time for radio etc., as there is absolutely no guarantee I'd safely get him back unaided. I might just manage it in which case I can cancel the Mayday. Whichever, with a big danbuoy with light/drogue in the water, I won't lose his position in the moving-with-the-tide water, which is far more important than the GPS MOB ground position.

I think it would be a bad idea to cancel the Mayday. Inform the CG the MOB has been recovered, of course - but leave the MayDay in place. An MOB may well be suffering from hypothermia; realistically we're talking about 15-30 minutes in the water and even Summer water temperatures round the UK are too low to prevent hypothermia. Second, the MOB may well have breathed in water; secondary drowning (or whatever it is called) is a possibility. That's not counting any injuries that have been caused by the incident or by the recovery efforts.

The CG may well downgrade the call, but I'd regard a MOB as needing urgent medical attention, even if they appeared to be OK.

 

[l'escargot]

I didn't say I wouldn't use the MOB button or the DSC button, just not the first or second things I'd be doing...

Then you probably aren't far off my view:

I would say as soon as you have thrown the dan buoy and life ring in the water and stopped the boat. The sooner you can get more people searching the better.

 

[sam_uk]

"The hardest part will be for my girlfriend to first reach down the topsides from the cockpit to secure it to me first!"

I don't have a fancy lift mechanism, plan would be to drop sail and use the halyard + winch, but I have thought about attaching the line to lifejacket ring.

Which is why I got one of these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mooringma...tEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item33821d4332

 

[PeppaPig]

Whatever the situation, the first thing is that anyone left on board will experience is a "panic" or stress moment as they realise what has happened & try to come to terms with it. This will delay any immediate response and this should be accounted for in any practice session... So leave 10 seconds or so before doing anything to start the rescue procedure. In addition to the listed techniques, we were also shown the heave too method followed by letting the headsail go free (flog in reality) start the engine and basically be blown sideways down to the casualty maintaining your mid ships position inline with with them by throttling back/forward to balance the boat..advantages: quick, heel to casualty, calmer seas in lee of vessel for MOB. Obviously into neutral when close to casualty..we find ..in practice it works pretty well, assuming engine starts.. Hopefully none of us will be put to the stress test.

 

[SAWDOC]

Whatever the situation, the first thing is that anyone left on board will experience is a "panic" or stress moment as they realise what has happened & try to come to terms with it. This will delay any immediate response and this should be accounted for in any practice session... So leave 10 seconds or so before doing anything to start the rescue procedure. In addition to the listed techniques, we were also shown the heave too method followed by letting the headsail go free (flog in reality) start the engine and basically be blown sideways down to the casualty maintaining your mid ships position inline with with them by throttling back/forward to balance the boat..advantages: quick, heel to casualty, calmer seas in lee of vessel for MOB. Obviously into neutral when close to casualty..we find ..in practice it works pretty well, assuming engine starts.. Hopefully none of us will be put to the stress test.

I dont think you have given the heave to method sufficient try out. The advantage of the heave to is that it restores a sense of calm - one doesn't have to worry about lines in the water and prop getting fouled. I would certainly recommend first heaving to, getting organised and seeing how the boat was drifting back towards the casualty. I would be confident having practiced it a few times that the boat could be manouvred close enough to casualty to throw a rescue sling over their head.
I am much less inclined to let mainsail flog and have a boom take out the remaining crew!

If needs be, the engine can be started at a later stage if sufficient progress is not being made towards the casualty but at least this will now be down in a calm(er) environment.

 

[onesea]

6 don't fall off!

I once fell from a dinghy and found it utterly impossible to climb aboard a little 19' trailer sailer.

I do not think the RNLI where far wrong, particularly with no 6

I got out the water once must of been a couple of foot, I was aided by the fact I was VERY drunk (I had capsized the canoe I was using as a tender). I got on board by climbing up the jib sheet..Getting my arms up hooking a leg behind a stantion and pulling my self on deck, once onboard I was violently ill.. Could I do it again today hell no...

If you are 2 handed & 1 falls in then the trouble with hitting the DSC button is that the coastguard will be asking loads of questions.

I'm sure they would ask, but I don't have to answer.

Just say "Mayday Yacht XXX Man-overboard" as some one says the coastguard then have a position, I am sure they might realize given the situation and tone of voice you have other things on your mind... Also if you lucky and there boats in the area they notified to.

Whatever the situation, the first thing is that anyone left on board will experience is a "panic" or stress moment as they realise what has happened & try to come to terms with it.

I think this is very true none of us will know how we will react in times of extreme pressure. Even if you stay calm cool headed 9 times the tenth might be different.

Allot here seems to be coming down to different boats, equipment and experience levels. How long you will try and rescue your MOB until you call for help? is difficult to say.

I know for SWMBO my instruction is immediately, for her safety and mine. I know she could get me back to port if I was sleeping, after this if I am 100% she will need assistance.

For me I would probably stop the boat get closer then call help, unless I had NO doubts about getting her alongside AND onboard undersail.

This is simply because, of the boats layout. Engine Control is below next to DSC and GPS with hand held radio all at chart table.

With the shape of the boat and deck getting a person conscious or not on board will be at best difficult. Once I or SWMBO start on this there will be no break to call for help.

Does it make to much difference? How long are we talking 1 or 2 minutes probably not 5-10 then yes certainly. Particularly on your own in a pressure situation time can become very distorted..

My thought is its better some one knows you are out there in trouble sooner rather than later even if position is 50 or 100m out, by the time L/B or Helicopter get there that distance is going to be immaterial. You also do not know what mess they will be once they are on deck, a lifeboat or Helicopter close by might be even more important then.