Two-handed MOB - do what first, then what next?

[prv]

There's a lot of mention here of crash tacks and crash stops. maybe I've been missing something all these years but they're not expressions or manoeuvers that I am familiar with.

What is the purpose of tacking if there's a MOB?

As others have said, it's not so much a tack as immediately heaving to. Chuck the bow through the wind, while shouting "don't touch the sheets!" if you have any crew left on board, and in many cases you'll end up hove-to just to windward of the MOB and drifting down towards him. I did it on my Day Skipper course years ago - of course I had prior warning in that I'd clocked the instructor trying to tie a bucket and fender together without us noticing, but we stopped within a boathook length. He looked slightly put out, said "yes, very clever", then made me let draw and reach away and back in the approved manner.

I'm not saying it will work on every boat, point of sail, and wind/sea condition, but it's a good instinctive first step.

EDIT: I like Blowing Old Boot's engine enhancement. Kindred Spirit would heave to absolutely stationary (old full-keeled shape) but in the limited testing I've done so far the new boat wants to keep going at a couple of knots. A bit of reverse to counteract that and help guide us down to the MOB would be ideal.

Pete

 

[doris]

Interesting thread this.
We practice this for short handed and are always looking to find a better way of stopping the boat, a modern Dehler 39.
Our rule is: The moment someone goes over, helm into the wind and stop the boat. An instinctive reaction same as steering the car into a skid. Keeping the helm hard over, sheets all pulled in tight and continue round in tight circles as the lifesling line gets to the casualty. With a helm who even half awake you should never be more than a couple of baots lenghts away. Then the primary problem is stopping the boat, she does not want to heave to like the boats of the 80s and earlier. All my sigmas did easily, from the 41 to the 33 but today's boats are not so keen however with a sail drive the prop is so far away from the casualty's legs it's safe to stick the motor in reverse and stop. Then we have the recovery plan arranged.

I have had chaps tell me how easy it is to stop and heave to, they are given the helm to show us. Work in progress as you say.

All makes me even more paranoid about not falling over. Also a big plus point for the older boats, with tighter bums than today's 'does my bum look big in this' style of boat. Yes my current boat sails much better off the wind but as always something has to give.

 

[Colvic Watson]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned liferaft - I've only just remembered it myself - if you could jettison this close to the MOB then not only does it act as a good marker, it also gives the MOB a chance to get out of the water even if you can't get them back onboard.

Ahem - recommended by me on page 3

With all due respect, do you really think that electing to leave the closest available rescue vessel single crewed whilst simultaneously doubling the casualty count decreases the likelihood of a tragic ending?

Yes and no. Basically if one of our children falls in, then one of us will go in the water immediately in order to be with them, whether it's wise or not - it's a parent thing. It's why parents run back into burning buildings and end up dying as well. We discussed the scenario when the first one was born and both agreed that the child would have one of us with them in the water no matter what the consequences were. But equally no child is allowed on the side decks out of the marina without a safety line on.

 

[fireball]

Ahem - recommended by me on page 3

Sorry! Btw - mention post number not page count - it's only on the second page of the thread with my settings ...

 

[prv]

Sorry! Btw - mention post number not page count - it's only on the second page of the thread with my settings ...

Indeed - at the time of writing, for me there is no page three

Pete

 

[LadyInBed]

Once hove too, if the engine is engaged, one can reverse back to the MOB, still hove too without touching any sails. You reverse up wind of the MOB, work the throttle and it will place you right at the MOB. Kill the engine and hey presto, the MOB is along side in less than 2 minutes. The motoring bit was shown to me by James Stevens, RYA's ex Training Manager. It is remarkable and works well and is fast.

Good thinking, I like it.

 

[Chalker]

I understood that liferafts and dinghys would rapidly blow downwind whereas the MOB acts as a sea anchor. They ars not likely to stay together for more than seconds.

 

[jwilson]

Back to ordinary MOBs - I'm surprised nobody has mentioned liferaft - I've only just remembered it myself - if you could jettison this close to the MOB then not only does it act as a good marker, it also gives the MOB a chance to get out of the water even if you can't get them back onboard.

I suspect an empty liferaft will drift downwind surprisingly fast, despite the drogue and stability pockets underneath...

 

[jwilson]

If you immediately tack without touching any sheets as soon as MOB has happened the yacht can stop easily within throwing distance of a heaving line. It's not just a matter of tacking: immediately the tack is made, the main has to be dumped and the yacht brought to 'hove to'. Now there is a further enhancement on this. Once hove too, if the engine is engaged, one can reverse back to the MOB, still hove too without touching any sails. You reverse up wind of the MOB, work the throttle and it will place you right at the MOB. Kill the engine and hey presto, the MOB is along side in less than 2 minutes. The motoring bit was shown to me by James Stevens, RYA's ex Training Manager. It is remarkable and works well and is fast.

During a YM Instructor qualification I practiced this for most of a whole afternoon on a 45 ft deep fin and spade rudder boat and failed. Everyone else on board also repeatedly failed miserably. Amongst those failing to achieve this were two YM Examiners, one also a big ship Extra Master. We then switched to a 32 ft longer-keeler, and it worked first time.

You really need to try this on your own boat....

 

[MASH]

I'm somewhat puzzled by the description in quotes above.
Tacking without touching the sheets is how to heave-to - it seems strange to use the expression "tack without touching the sheets", esp when it isn't clear what point of sail you started from which if much off the wind simply would not be possible. Then it says "dump the main". What does that mean? Drop it? Release the sheet? Either of those would stop the boat being hove-to yet the next part goes on to say "and the yacht bought hove-to".

I can picture trying to motor backwards whilst hove-to but wonder whether this could work in many modern boats that won't heave-to properly or in any sort of weather. I must try it next chance I get.

 

[prv]

I'm somewhat puzzled by the description in quotes above.
Tacking without touching the sheets is how to heave-to - it seems strange to use the expression "tack without touching the sheets",

A lot of people don't heave to as a normal manoeuvre any more, so "tacking without touching the sheets" is how they think of it. I tried to make this clear in my post #41 - what's really being said is "heave to straight away".

esp when it isn't clear what point of sail you started from which if much off the wind simply would not be possible.

?

I think either of my boats could be brought up to and through the wind from any point of sail, as long as they were travelling at a reasonable speed to give momentum through the turn. I'm not fully familiar with the new boat yet, but I can't imagine her protesting.

Then it says "dump the main". What does that mean? Drop it? Release the sheet? Either of those would stop the boat being hove-to yet the next part goes on to say "and the yacht bought hove-to".

Lots of people talk about dumping the main in a gust - possibly it's a racer's term originally? It just means letting out a load of mainsheet very quickly to spill wind.

Whether doing that will break the hove-to equilibrium presumably depends on the boat. On Kindred Spirit I certainly needed the mainsail kept in to balance the leverage of the backed jib all the way out ahead on the end of the bowsprit. In fact I could trim the mizzen to adjust the angle I lay to the wind. But maybe some other kinds of boat need the main partly eased to prevent it driving the boat forwards; I can imagine our new boat might need such treatment. When I tried to heave to to speak to Colhel outside Poole on the Scuttlebutt trip, I just backed the jib as I'm used to and we kept moving. Easing the main might prevent that; I need to get out there and practice.

Pete

 

[Angele]

I'm somewhat puzzled by the description in quotes above.

....

Then it says "dump the main". What does that mean? Drop it? Release the sheet? Either of those would stop the boat being hove-to yet the next part goes on to say "and the yacht bought hove-to".

In my boat (a modern AWB), there is no way you can stay hove-to without releasing the mainsheet. With the mainsheet in tight, the fully battened main will quickly made the boat pick up way and she will tack back again. To stay near stationary, the only option is to release the mainsheet. That is what I take "dump the main" to be. (Exactly what you do if she is overcanvased when you get hit by a gust and she starts to round up).

 

[fireball]

I understood that liferafts and dinghys would rapidly blow downwind whereas the MOB acts as a sea anchor. They ars not likely to stay together for more than seconds.

I suspect an empty liferaft will drift downwind surprisingly fast, despite the drogue and stability pockets underneath...

Hmm - I thought liferafts were supposed to have drogues to stop that sort of thing ...

Anyway - if you're upwind of the MOB when you deploy the liferaft it should at least drift to them ...

 

[prv]

Hmm - I thought liferafts were supposed to have drogues to stop that sort of thing ...

The actual drogue is generally manually streamed, I believe. There are ballast pockets which will do some of the same job, but I don't know how quickly they fill. The Jon Buoy has a big pocket on the bottom with valve-like inlet flaps built into it and a bloody great lump of lead to pull it open - it's clearly designed to flood very quickly to hold the unit in place. I talked to them at the boat show one year about repacking it (it's not vacuum packed like a liferaft so you can do an annual service yourself just like a lifejacket) and they emphasised the importance of the pocket and its weight being on the outside of the container so that it falls in first. Having once accidentally dropped the thing off the dining room table, I think it would hit the water with the pocket already mostly extended.

I don't know whether liferafts have equivalent weights? They'd need to be noticeably large and heavy to be proportionate to the Jon Buoy one.

Anyway - if you're upwind of the MOB when you deploy the liferaft it should at least drift to them ...

Or past them...

Pete

 

[Daydream believer]

Hmm - I thought liferafts were supposed to have drogues to stop that sort of thing ...

Anyway - if you're upwind of the MOB when you deploy the liferaft it should at least drift to them ...

Have to be dead lucky to get a "hit".. it is near impossible to swim with full wet gear & inflated lifejacket.
With full wet gear & no jacket - chances are you will too busy drowning to swim anywhere to grab passing liferafts

 

[Simondjuk]

During my YM practical, I did much the same as prv said he did in his DS practical. Whilst hard on the wind the 'MOB' was thrown, I turned hard off the wind for a boat length, then up through the wind and hove to. The quick bear away gave me enough distance to go through the wind and be right above the MOB. Whilst doing that, my other hand had fired up the donk, and bit of astern once hove to stopped the boat with the MOB in arms reach of the cockpit as we dropped down toward it.

The examiner decided that one wasn't nearly entertaining enough so threw me another one as I came up the companionway from taking a leak whilst downwind, goosewinged and poled out.

 

[NUTMEG]

No expert, and hope I never need to become one. When I had a SeaCheck carried out aboard my last boat the RNLI chappie asked how I would recover a MOB. I felt a bit silly because I had only vaguely considered the possibility. Anyway, he said the following...
1 Hit the DSC panic button
2 Chuck floating orange smoke tin in direction of MOB
3 drop sails and start engine and motor to smoke.
4 drop boarding ladder
5 do not expect to be able to recover MOB because the odds are you will not be able to.
6 don't fall off!

I once fell from a dinghy and found it utterly impossible to climb aboard a little 19' trailer sailer.

LJs are a rule on current boat and lifelines are constantly present for trips forward (flush decked no guard wires).

 

[Babylon]

When I had a SeaCheck carried out aboard my last boat the RNLI chappie asked how I would recover a MOB. I felt a bit silly because I had only vaguely considered the possibility. Anyway, he said the following...
1 Hit the DSC panic button
2 Chuck floating orange smoke tin in direction of MOB
3 drop sails and start engine and motor to smoke.
4 drop boarding ladder
5 do not expect to be able to recover MOB because the odds are you will not be able to.
6 don't fall off!

The orange smoke is an excellent idea.

The orange smoke is currently kept in a watertight container forward with the other flares (the only convenient place to stow the whole lot on my small yacht), but I should in fact keep one mounted by the companionway - as I already do with two white flares.

 

[NUTMEG]

The orange smoke is an excellent idea.

The orange smoke is currently kept in a watertight container forward (the only convenience place to stow the whole lot on my small yacht) with the other flares, but I should in fact keep one mounted by the companionway - as I already do with two white flares.

Mine is at home in the shed! But I promise to get another and keep it in one of the halyard bags. Or somewhere dryish and to hand.

 

[Colvic Watson]

Have you tried lighting a smoke flare? It's not a matter of a few seconds whilst doing something else!