Two-handed MOB - do what first, then what next?

[dunedin]

Presumably depends rather on location.
- Saturday in July on the Solent with boats all round an early radio call could get help beside you within a few minutes (if you can find air time through all the radio checks)
- weekday on the west coast of Scotland or Ireland any help may be hours away, so best to leave VHF and focus on self help options

 

[Poignard]

Reach -tack -reach is what I use for retrieving fenders (and hats if I'm quick enough!) but nowadays the Old Guvnor and I are more careful about clipping on.

 

[Colvic Watson]

We have this list by the wheel, together with the mayday proforma
MOB:
MOB button on GPS
Engine on
Head directly into wind, douse headsail/sheet in main
Head back to casualty whilst hitting DSC mayday button and calling voice Mayday

Any MOB outside of a sheltered river is a mayday in my opinion and i cant imagine a lifeboat crew wanting us to weigh up the situation first! Unless very calm, when we're near the casualty we would launch the liferaft to give both boat and MOB something to aim for and a shelter for MOB to use. All of this implies it's one of us two that goes in. If its one if the children we'd shout MOB, make sure we're heard then jump in, they're not going to be in the water alone.

 

[davidej]

suggesting hit the MOB button on your GPS if close to hand as well.....

+1

 

[prv]

Any MOB outside of a sheltered river is a mayday in my opinion and i cant imagine a lifeboat crew wanting us to weigh up the situation first!

Nobody's disputing that - the problem is for all those people who have mounted their radio in the living room instead of by the driving seat. They have to choose between keeping in touch with the MOB or abandoning the bridge to make the call - and in the first few seconds, quite rightly it's the direct action on deck that takes priority.

Pete

 

[rjandhl]

Nobody has mentioned the EPIRB, ours would be thrown over asap with a view to getting as close to the MOB, who should be wearing a lifejacket if following our boat rules.
The EPIRB activation can always be cancelled if the MOB is recovered on board.

 

[PhillM]

Nobody has mentioned the EPIRB, ours would be thrown over asap with a view to getting as close to the MOB, who should be wearing a lifejacket if following our boat rules.
The EPIRB activation can always be cancelled if the MOB is recovered on board.

That is a good idea and one that had not crossed my mind. Thank you.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I like this:

 

[Simondjuk]

If its one if the children we'd shout MOB, make sure we're heard then jump in, they're not going to be in the water alone.

With all due respect, do you really think that electing to leave the closest available rescue vessel single crewed whilst simultaneously doubling the casualty count decreases the likelihood of a tragic ending?

 

[TQA]

Another vote for pressing MOB button on what ever piece of electronic kit you have for nav work as step one.

This is essential IMHO as you can only rescue someone if you can find them.

Perhaps my thinking is based on my only real mob situation where we were running downwind with a poled out genny and main with a preventer. A rapid turnaround was not possible without risk of serious damage. In the time it took to get turned back towards the MOB we had almost lost sight of them.

 

[Daydream believer]

Nobody has mentioned the EPIRB, ours would be thrown over asap with a view to getting as close to the MOB, who should be wearing a lifejacket if following our boat rules.
The EPIRB activation can always be cancelled if the MOB is recovered on board.

That is the instruction i give all my crew before sailing. Even if it ends up 100 yards from the casualty the rescue services have a point of reference as it will drift roughly the same amount as a MOB. Next item is the dan buoy so those on board have a reference point to head for. Hitting the gps button is good if it is on deck but if 2 handed the remaining person on deck cannot see the instrument, if it is below, to use it effectively
I have a self tacking jib so slam tacks heave too is not possible
Dropping the main has to be done head to wind & whilst easy enough in normal circumstances one can be sure that in panic every line possible will want to snag.
Whilst i believe i could sail up to a MOB fairly easy i am not sure my crew could hence. I say mayday via EPIRB then radio AsAP
If someone goes in then there is a good chance it will be some time before we can get to them.
I always wear a lifejacket ( with epirb attached) & tell crew that nomally they do not have to but i prefer they did
However, once a reef goes in or the nav lights go on then lifejackets are mandatory as is hooking on when going on deck.
If they do not like that rule then sail with somebody else
( perhaps that is why 90% of my sailing is single handed!!)

 

[Babylon]

I like this:...

All good stuff for Stage One of the recovery - getting the MOB secured to the boat.

However for Stage Two - getting the MOB back on board the boat - in cold waters and/or if the casualty has been in the water for some time, there is considerable risk of heart-failure if one attempts to hoist the casualty vertically from the water.

The advised method therefore is to hoist the casualty in a horizontal attitude (using a small sail or similar), or in a 'crouched' attitude by using a secondary strop under his knees to hold them up on a level with his chest, whilst the casualty is hoisted up with the line attached to his lifejacket/harness. If no lifejacket/harness is being worn, then a primary strop must be rigged under the casualty's arms first.

 

[jwilson]

With all due respect, do you really think that electing to leave the closest available rescue vessel single crewed whilst simultaneously doubling the casualty count decreases the likelihood of a tragic ending?

When running MOB exercises one of the things the instructor on board (me) more than once had to do was to STOP others "jumping in to help". With an inert MOB someone else will probably have to go in, but in a harness pre-attached to a halliard or boom-end handy-billy.

The point about the MOB button is fine in zero tide, but I can see a worrying conflict in any significant tide or current, the MOB will be steadily drifting away from the bang-on position the box says, and if you did lose sight it might be easy to forget that and just home in on the electronic position. Yes - I know you could then search down-tide, but might it not be better to just search from where you were? The MOB button doesn't hurt, but it's not the primary response.

I bought my boat with a near-new DSC radio and plotter at the chart table. I agree it's the wrong place, but in my experience these electricky bits don't like the wet as much as the "waterproof to XXX" labels say.

 

[fireball]

If its one if the children we'd shout MOB, make sure we're heard then jump in, they're not going to be in the water alone.

With all due respect, do you really think that electing to leave the closest available rescue vessel single crewed whilst simultaneously doubling the casualty count decreases the likelihood of a tragic ending?

TBH - if it was a child who isn't used to being on the boat then I'd be tempted to jump in too - it rather depends who I left on the boat.
The problem would be that the child will panic and increase the probability of ingesting water - the presence of an adult (or someone) appearing calm with them would help them - and you're also likely to need someone in the water to get them back onboard as a panicing child wouldn't necessarily grab whatever rope/device you have to retrieve them.

I know for a fact that if it was one of my brothers kids who fell onboard then my brother would be in the water after them - and that wouldn't worry me as I'd be better off controlling the boat (he wouldn't know instinctively) - it also gives a better target to get back too. But it all depends on circumstances.

Back to ordinary MOBs - I'm surprised nobody has mentioned liferaft - I've only just remembered it myself - if you could jettison this close to the MOB then not only does it act as a good marker, it also gives the MOB a chance to get out of the water even if you can't get them back onboard.

 

[fireball]

I bought my boat with a near-new DSC radio and plotter at the chart table. I agree it's the wrong place, but in my experience these electricky bits don't like the wet as much as the "waterproof to XXX" labels say.

That's why when replacing the VHF with a DSC version we chose one that would take a remote fist mike - the sensitive electrickery can be down below whilst the bit that you interface with is on deck.

 

[prv]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned liferaft - I've only just remembered it myself - if you could jettison this close to the MOB then not only does it act as a good marker, it also gives the MOB a chance to get out of the water even if you can't get them back onboard.

Certainly an option to bear in mind, but most liferafts are not instantly deployable in the second or two that they'd need to be to land near the MOB (pushpit mounts possibly excepted). Instead, I have a Jon Buoy, which is essentially a one-man liferaft with an eight foot flagpole on top. It releases with one handle which is within arm's reach of the helm.

I try to make sure that guests on board know that launching this is the absolute immediate priority if they see someone go over - I phrase it as "if you see someone fall off the foredeck, you should be aiming to drop the raft on his head as he goes past" (I know that's probably not literally achievable at any speed, but it indicates the need for very rapid action). I'm toying with the idea of having remote activation via a bowden cable to the front of the cockpit, for when we're on autopilot with nobody behind the wheel - in that case the handle is a bit further to get to than it was on Kindred Spirit.

Pete

 

[MASH]

There's a lot of mention here of crash tacks and crash stops. maybe I've been missing something all these years but they're not expressions or manoeuvers that I am familiar with.

What is the purpose of tacking if there's a MOB? if you were close hauled it still takes you further away from the victim but just on a different course. What does that achieve? If on a reach it puts you upwind of the MOB which is where you don't want to be and isn't going to happen terrifically fast as you'll need to harden up to do it, so where's the "crash" bit? Downwind it's not helpful to tack straight away as that prevents a direct return to the MOB.

This is an evolution that needs a bit of thought and planning and apart from deploying a dan buoy, EPIRB (goof thinking!) and even better an orange day-smoke (no need for a radio call in many locations if you do that) do nothing in a hurry. This is most definitely a case of more haste, less speed - more MOBs have been cocked up through haste than through every other cause put together I reckon.

Once you've got the boat on a reach to give you space to turn back you may well have time for the red button (but not, I think, for a radio call if singlehanded) and start the donk. By the time you've done that your ducks are all in a row and you can gybe and sail up to the MOB, or luff, drop the sails and motor as appropriate.

Motoring may well not be suitable if it is rolly, recovering a MOB from a wildly rolling boat is nigh on impossible. In this case consider sailing back and heaving to so as to drift down on him with some stability. But how many modern boats heave-to well, and how many sailors know how to achieve this quickly and reliably, and place the boat in the right position? Just luffing up to the survivor ill see the boat fall away in seconds which doesn't give much time to secure him.

There's a lot to think about. The idea of joining the MOB sounds insane to me, it is asking to double the casualty list and cripple the rescue effort - you need all the hands you can get on board.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

..... remote activation via a bowden cable to the front of the cockpit, ....

I sailed on a yacht, centre cockpit, that had the dan buoy launched in a similar manner. The dan buoy was placed inside a section of yellow gas main pipe and had a U shaped pin inserted all the way through the plastic pipe. The dan buoy sat in between the arms of the U. A line ran from the U Pin all the way to the bow via holes in the stanchion bases. A sharp tug pulled the U Pin out, the dan buoy dropped and deployed along with the drogue which pulled the horseshoe and light out. It was quite a neat system, simple but effective. I would prefer the Jon Buoy today though for the better MOB in water survivability and recovery on board features.

 

[fireball]

You need to try it ..

In this case a crash tack is where you tack without altering the sails - the genoa is backed and you should loose way straight away. The idea is that you don't get too far from the MOB and can probably throw a line or they can swim.
You do want to be upwind of the MOB as then you get blown down onto them - possibly one to consider carefully in large seas ... but not only do you get blown onto them, the wind will heal the boat to leeward meaning the deck is that much closer to the MOB.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

There's a lot of mention here of crash tacks and crash stops. maybe I've been missing something all these years but they're not expressions or manoeuvers that I am familiar with.

What is the purpose of tacking if there's a MOB? if you were close hauled it still takes you further away from the victim but just on a different course. What does that achieve? If on a reach it puts you upwind of the MOB which is where you don't want to be and isn't going to happen terrifically fast as you'll need to harden up to do it, so where's the "crash" bit? Downwind it's not helpful to tack straight away as that prevents a direct return to the MOB.

This is an evolution that needs a bit of thought and planning and apart from deploying a dan buoy, EPIRB (goof thinking!) and even better an orange day-smoke (no need for a radio call in many locations if you do that) do nothing in a hurry. This is most definitely a case of more haste, less speed - more MOBs have been cocked up through haste than through every other cause put together I reckon.

Once you've got the boat on a reach to give you space to turn back you may well have time for the red button (but not, I think, for a radio call if singlehanded) and start the donk. By the time you've done that your ducks are all in a row and you can gybe and sail up to the MOB, or luff, drop the sails and motor as appropriate.

Motoring may well not be suitable if it is rolly, recovering a MOB from a wildly rolling boat is nigh on impossible. In this case consider sailing back and heaving to so as to drift down on him with some stability. But how many modern boats heave-to well, and how many sailors know how to achieve this quickly and reliably, and place the boat in the right position? Just luffing up to the survivor ill see the boat fall away in seconds which doesn't give much time to secure him.

There's a lot to think about. The idea of joining the MOB sounds insane to me, it is asking to double the casualty list and cripple the rescue effort - you need all the hands you can get on board.

If you immediately tack without touching any sheets as soon as MOB has happened the yacht can stop easily within throwing distance of a heaving line. It's not just a matter of tacking: immediately the tack is made, the main has to be dumped and the yacht brought to 'hove to'. Now there is a further enhancement on this. Once hove too, if the engine is engaged, one can reverse back to the MOB, still hove too without touching any sails. You reverse up wind of the MOB, work the throttle and it will place you right at the MOB. Kill the engine and hey presto, the MOB is along side in less than 2 minutes. The motoring bit was shown to me by James Stevens, RYA's ex Training Manager. It is remarkable and works well and is fast.