Twin petrol

[spannerman]

My Magnum 350 in a Draco 24 runs at 3300 rpm at 24 kts and 34 lph, if I go up to max at 4500rpm its 36kts and 70lph, so that is seldom!
An equivalent hi-tech Verado 250 with fuel injection can't get near that 1997 carb V8 in fuel consumption, they are well over 120lph at max rpm!
As others have said most of the trip is at cruise with long periods at anchor, which gives a great day out.

 

[MapisM]

The boat is a bavaria 32dc and the engines are twin 4.3gxi volvo v6 boat and engines are 7 years old and raw water cooled

I had several petrol boats, and loved all of them, bar none.
BUT, and it's a big but, they were fresh water boats, except the last one, whose previous owner used in salt water - though she had always been kept on the hard, never antifouled, and with a closed cooling.
Now, 'fiuaskme, boats like Bavarias have no reason on earth to be built with petrol engines, and even less if raw cooled. No reasons, 'cept making their price tag attractive.
Bottom line, I would pass. Most boat purchases I've seen which were mainly driven by an attractive initial price, eventually lead to regretting the decision.
All the best anyway!

 

[rwilson]

Hi can let you know what my twin petrol engine set up consumes, albeit 2x250 Yamaha outboards not inboards. The boat is 32ft and the below figs are for the combined consumption not individual.

1200 rpm, 6 knts, 13 lph
3500 rpm, 26 knts, 55-65 lph or around 1.8/9 mpg
5500 rpm, 45 knts, 180 lph..................

So for fuel planning its distance x 2.5 which gives a good estimate for fuel required.

In the last 12 months have logged 885nm and burnt 2100 lts.

 

[ari]

100 hours on a twin petrol even at cruising will be 8gph each engine or £11600 per year (waterside prices), at wot that rises to £29000.

In my world thats between 25% and 75% of the value of the boat and quite a lot of pennies, even in the lala land that is boating prices.

That does rather presuppose that you'll start your engines, and within seconds be at cruising speed, and remain at that speed right up until moments before you shut the engines down again.

I'd quite like to see that done, but from a safe distance...

 

[ari]

Everyone has mentioned the downside of petrol engines in that they use more in fuel.. Some have mentioned the plus site is that you pay a LOT less for the boat in the beginning and can buy a lot of petrol for the price difference..

Yes but when you spend the extra £x,xxx on buying a diesel boat, it's still worth an extra £x.xxx when you come to sell it again (maybe not all of it, but likely most of it).

When you spend £x,xxx less on a petrol boat and then spend the difference on the extra fuel costs of higher consumption and more expensive fuel, that money (literally) is burnt and gone.

 

[wipe_out]

Yes but when you spend the extra £x,xxx on buying a diesel boat, it's still worth an extra £x.xxx when you come to sell it again (maybe not all of it, but likely most of it).

When you spend £x,xxx less on a petrol boat and then spend the difference on the extra fuel costs of higher consumption and more expensive fuel, that money (literally) is burnt and gone.

That is true but depends on your usage pattern.. Obviously if you are doing hundreds of hours each year then absolutely fork for the diesel but when I spoke to a broker a little while back he said the average they see is 23 hours usage per year.. I know I am way above that but not into the hundreds...

My typical usage is to cruise out to somewhere quiet, drop anchor and enjoy the day on the water and then cruise back.. I typically only burn about 40L of petrol on an average day (sometimes more, sometimes less).. I don't know the split between diesel and petrol consumption for the same work but lets say the same boat in diesel would use 30L..

40L @ £1.30 for Petrol is £52..
30L @ £1.10 for Diesel is £33..

So my average day would be £19 cheaper in fuel costs if I had the same boat with a Diesel engine..

Lets say the saving of getting the petrol boat over the Diesel boat is £5000 (although I think it's probably a bit more).. That means I can have around 260 of those days out for the up front cost difference.. If I did that 30 times a year (which I probably don't) it would take nearly 9 years to use up the cost difference (chances are I will change the boat before I get to the break even point with my current usage)..

Would the diesel boat be worth that much more than the petrol boat when both are ~15-20 years old?

Even doubling the per trip costs still give you 4 years use with the cost difference and it's money you haven't had to find up front to get into a certain size of boat that suits your needs..

Anyway I really don't see the boat as any form of "investment", if I did it would be a bad one..

 

[landlockedpirate]

That does rather presuppose that you'll start your engines, and within seconds be at cruising speed, and remain at that speed right up until moments before you shut the engines down again.

I'd quite like to see that done, but from a safe distance...

Thats because you didnt have a boat on Windermere before the speed limit

I love petrol boats, especially small sportscruisers, but the only way a twin petrol makes financial sense is not to use it (Or use it 20hrs a year ).

 

[ari]

I don't know the split between diesel and petrol consumption for the same work but lets say the same boat in diesel would use 30L..

40L @ £1.30 for Petrol is £52..
30L @ £1.10 for Diesel is £33..

So my average day would be £19 cheaper in fuel costs if I had the same boat with a Diesel engine..

Ahh, but you've cheated slightly there and used road prices of petrol haven't you?

Now add on however you cost your leisure time in driving however far it is to a garage that will actually let you put a decent amount of fuel into cans nowadays (plus the cost of fuel for your car to do so of course). Don't forget it will probably be several runs for a boat the size that the OP is talking about. Then add on the chiropractor bills after humping them about.

Or just fill up at the marine petrol pumps, if you can find one, at what, £1.80/litre nowadays?

And as you say, you're not going to be keeping the boat for 15 years anyway, so you're not going to zero the purchase cost difference.

I'm being a little tongue in cheek, but my point stands. I have heard the logic used that the £10,000 saving buying a petrol boat instead 'will buy a lot of fuel'. Yes it will, but my point is that the £10,000 isn't immediately lost when you buy the diesel boat, you recoup most (maybe all) of it on resale.

 

[rwilson]

For my next boat, I would deffo buy a diesel, primarily because we would be going up in size to say 40ft. Our current engine set up is appealing as it is good for 45 knots, having moved over from a rib, I still wanted something with a bit of punch and to ski off etc.

Tricky decision with a diesel in a smallish boat, as that is a preferable choice IMHO, but the petrol option may allow entry to that size of the boat market for the OP which may not be the case if it was diesel powered ?

 

[gsturgeon]

When ever I bought a boat, I looked at my budget and had a choice of a petrol boat or a much smaller/older diesel one - guess which I chose....

 

[ari]

When ever I bought a boat, I looked at my budget and had a choice of a petrol boat or a much smaller/older diesel one - guess which I chose....

Hard to know without knowing what size it is. The decision would be very different for a forty foot boat compared to a twenty foot boat I'd imagine.

 

[MapisM]

Our current engine set up is appealing as it is good for 45 knots, having moved over from a rib, I still wanted something with a bit of punch and to ski off etc.

Precisely what I meant with my previous reply.
For small(ish) and fast boats, give me 5k+ rpm petrol engines any day.
But for a 30'+ cruiser? Naaah...

 

[gsturgeon]

Hard to know without knowing what size it is. The decision would be very different for a forty foot boat compared to a twenty foot boat I'd imagine.

It's 32 X 11 feet. Big enough to live on when our house was flooded. Cost £80k new 13 years ago and is obviously worth something now, can't depreciate more than that.

 

[gsturgeon]

If the EU were to force through their restrictions on red diesel (see MBY), would not all the arguments petrol v diesel be stood on their heads?

 

[rwilson]

For small boats I think the choice would favour petrol, but bigger boats diesel would still be the best choice. I can never understand why people buy a small car with a Diesel engine , but I fully appreciate why they don't buy a supercharged petrol range rover.

 

[gsturgeon]

For small boats I think the choice would favour petrol, but bigger boats diesel would still be the best choice. I can never understand why people buy a small car with a Diesel engine , but I fully appreciate why they don't buy a supercharged petrol range rover.

But my car averages 35mph and the boat 40 hours a year, put together you get 1400 miles a year. I know this is a silly way of thinking about it but would there be any point in a diesel car for this sort of useage?

 

[ari]

But my car averages 35mph and the boat 40 hours a year, put together you get 1400 miles a year. I know this is a silly way of thinking about it but would there be any point in a diesel car for this sort of useage?

And what MPG does your boat achieve over those 40 hours? I'll wager more than a tad less than your car, so asking whether it would be worth buying a diesel car for 1,400 miles a year is somewhat irrelevant really.

Likewise, how often do you pull into a fuel station in your car and find they sell diesel, but not petrol? I suspect never, so again, it's hardly a fair comparison.

 

[ari]

If the EU were to force through their restrictions on red diesel (see MBY), would not all the arguments petrol v diesel be stood on their heads?

No, because a diesel boat will still use a lot less fuel, diesel will still be far more readily available, and people's perception (rightly or wrongly) will still be that diesel is safer and more reliable.

 

[GrahamHR]

I had several petrol boats, and loved all of them, bar none.
BUT, and it's a big but, they were fresh water boats, except the last one, whose previous owner used in salt water - though she had always been kept on the hard, never antifouled, and with a closed cooling.
Now, 'fiuaskme, boats like Bavarias have no reason on earth to be built with petrol engines, and even less if raw cooled. No reasons, 'cept making their price tag attractive.
Bottom line, I would pass. Most boat purchases I've seen which were mainly driven by an attractive initial price, eventually lead to regretting the decision.
All the best anyway!

I agree entirely; why on earth fit such engines in such a boat especially with raw water cooling ?

I had boats with 5.7 litre VP V8s; both with fresh water/ closed cooling and Neutrasalt. Faultless reliability and the exhaust components lasted 8+ years use in salt water.. Cost of fuel;it was ok considering the 50- 60 engine hours we did each year.

Our new boat with a diesel engine; well on economy and reliability it's a different story altogether and not positive !

 

[paultallett]

Ahh, but you've cheated slightly there and used road prices of petrol haven't you?

Now add on however you cost your leisure time in driving however far it is to a garage that will actually let you put a decent amount of fuel into cans nowadays (plus the cost of fuel for your car to do so of course). Don't forget it will probably be several runs for a boat the size that the OP is talking about. Then add on the chiropractor bills after humping them about.

Or just fill up at the marine petrol pumps, if you can find one, at what, £1.80/litre nowadays?

And as you say, you're not going to be keeping the boat for 15 years anyway, so you're not going to zero the purchase cost difference.

I'm being a little tongue in cheek, but my point stands. I have heard the logic used that the £10,000 saving buying a petrol boat instead 'will buy a lot of fuel'. Yes it will, but my point is that the £10,000 isn't immediately lost when you buy the diesel boat, you recoup most (maybe all) of it on resale.

Last time we filled up at Port Hamble we paid £1.33 a litre.