Gsd
New Member
I have found a boat I like but it has twin petrol engines
We don't do many hours but friends are saying don't buy it
We don't do many hours but friends are saying don't buy it
Twin petrol
- Thread starter Gsd
- Start date
Scarron
Well-Known Member
What is it and what condition are the engines in? as that is the most important thing with any cheapish boat.
Twin petrol boats can be quite cost effective, but you need to buy right and know you'll keep it for a while as they are difficult to sell. Obviously it'll be expensive to run, but the gulf between the price of petrol and diesel is narrowing and you actually need to do a lot of hours to justify the difference in capital cost.
If they are V8's make sure the exhausts and risers have been replaced very regularly or else you could be in for a big bill.
Twin petrol boats can be quite cost effective, but you need to buy right and know you'll keep it for a while as they are difficult to sell. Obviously it'll be expensive to run, but the gulf between the price of petrol and diesel is narrowing and you actually need to do a lot of hours to justify the difference in capital cost.
If they are V8's make sure the exhausts and risers have been replaced very regularly or else you could be in for a big bill.
julians
Well-Known Member
Actually the risers on the newer V8 mercruisers (from 2002 onwards if I recall correctly), have a new design of dry joint manifolds and risers, which will not fail in the same way the old wet joint manifolds and risers would fail, so they last considerably longer. They still need to be replaced after a good few years, but not at the 2-3 year intervals that the old style risers needed doing at.
Not many people seem to be aware of this, especially on the US boat forums, but if you look at diagrams of the wet joint versus the dry joint manifolds, you'll see its just not possible for them to fail in the way they always used to, ie at the point where manifold joins riser.
This only applies to the mercruisers, I think volvo are still using the old style wet joint manifolds and risers.
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gravygraham
Well-Known Member
Welcome to the forum Gsd. Are you just telling us or are you asking something. I'd guess if you want a meaningful answer you should be a little more specific.
Gsd
New Member
The boat is a bavaria 32dc and the engines are twin 4.3gxi volvo v6 boat and engines are 7 years old and raw water cooled
spannerman
Well-Known Member
You need to know more about its service history, when were the bellows last replaced, and being raw water cooled then the manifolds and risers are due for replacement any time now.
If you get an internal leak between the manifold and riser allowing seawater to run into the cylinders the engine will be scrap if its not dealt with asap as the seawater gets into the oil which then transports it to every bearing surface in the engine and its usually beyond economical repair.
So I'd want to see the engines running, check the colour of the oil and look inside the oil filler cap to see if the are any signs of rust, are the engine temps normal and do the manifolds and risers get too hot to touch, sure sign of blockage.
As others have said the running costs will be a bit higher but unless you are doing over 100 hrs a year it isn't significant.
If you get an internal leak between the manifold and riser allowing seawater to run into the cylinders the engine will be scrap if its not dealt with asap as the seawater gets into the oil which then transports it to every bearing surface in the engine and its usually beyond economical repair.
So I'd want to see the engines running, check the colour of the oil and look inside the oil filler cap to see if the are any signs of rust, are the engine temps normal and do the manifolds and risers get too hot to touch, sure sign of blockage.
As others have said the running costs will be a bit higher but unless you are doing over 100 hrs a year it isn't significant.
landlockedpirate
Well-Known Member
Im a supporter of single petrols in small sportscruisers, they have lots of advantages including performance, weight, smell and best of all sound but a twin petrol is a very different thing.
We had a twin petrol Regal in the family, very similar to the Bavaria. We paid peanuts for it and kept it on Windermere, but to be honest the thing nearly broke us. The major factor is simple fuel cost , we only did around 30 miles a weekend, but that could easily cost £180, and if we had to buy petrol waterside it was over £250. While fuel is actually one of the minor costs of boat ownership, on a twin petrol set up it becomes a major one.
The other big hurdle was selling it, after 12 months on sale through 2 large popular brokers at less than half the price of an oil burner we ended up having to trade it against a not very suitable replacement just to get rid of it.
When we bought the boat, I was really excited about it, big boat, big spec, great condition and tiny price, but it was a financial mistake, even on Windermere, on the sea it would have bankrupted us.
So, back to your questlion, should you buy it ? Only you can decide that. But at the very least it needs to be throwaway cheap, and the one on the Hamble isnt.
We had a twin petrol Regal in the family, very similar to the Bavaria. We paid peanuts for it and kept it on Windermere, but to be honest the thing nearly broke us. The major factor is simple fuel cost , we only did around 30 miles a weekend, but that could easily cost £180, and if we had to buy petrol waterside it was over £250. While fuel is actually one of the minor costs of boat ownership, on a twin petrol set up it becomes a major one.
The other big hurdle was selling it, after 12 months on sale through 2 large popular brokers at less than half the price of an oil burner we ended up having to trade it against a not very suitable replacement just to get rid of it.
When we bought the boat, I was really excited about it, big boat, big spec, great condition and tiny price, but it was a financial mistake, even on Windermere, on the sea it would have bankrupted us.
So, back to your questlion, should you buy it ? Only you can decide that. But at the very least it needs to be throwaway cheap, and the one on the Hamble isnt.
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Wavey
Well-Known Member
I'd echo every word landlockedpirate has said.
Some years back a friend and I planned to buy a boat jointly. He fell in love with a twin petrol boat. On that basis alone I wouldn't go through with it so he bought it on his own. Within months he regretted it. The running costs were huge, and not just in terms of the fuel. Finding a buyer for it even with all the money he'd spent on it was virtually impossible. He also ended up trading it in for a huge loss just to get rid of it.
You might be lucky and it might be well looked after and in very good order. But if it was my money just the problem of selling it on would be enough for me to give it a miss.
Some years back a friend and I planned to buy a boat jointly. He fell in love with a twin petrol boat. On that basis alone I wouldn't go through with it so he bought it on his own. Within months he regretted it. The running costs were huge, and not just in terms of the fuel. Finding a buyer for it even with all the money he'd spent on it was virtually impossible. He also ended up trading it in for a huge loss just to get rid of it.
You might be lucky and it might be well looked after and in very good order. But if it was my money just the problem of selling it on would be enough for me to give it a miss.
landlockedpirate
Well-Known Member
100 hours on a twin petrol even at cruising will be 8gph each engine or £11600 per year (waterside prices), at wot that rises to £29000.
In my world thats between 25% and 75% of the value of the boat and quite a lot of pennies, even in the lala land that is boating prices.
Gsd
New Member
It is the one on the hamble what do you think it's worth?
landlockedpirate
Well-Known Member
Its worth what you are willing to pay for it.
But I suspect that its worth a lot less than the seller is willing to let it go for. The problem with these boats is they get less desirable the older they are. Consider in a couple of years when its worth 20k, the owner will be spending 5k a year mooring, 3k a year maintenance and 5k a year on petrol. How many people who have 'only' 20k to spend on a boat, have a further 13k a year to run it. Boats like this usually end up on the Rivers, where the running costs are not quite as scarey.
IMHO I would spend my 30-40k on a clean 28ft max sportscruiser with a single V8, or an older twin diesel like a S28 or Targa 28/29.
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
When I was trying to sell my Windy, I had lots of approaches from people wanting to PX twin engined petrol boats, trying to trade their way out of them because they couldn't sell them outright. The frustration/despair in their voices/e-mails was so evident when I rejected the offers.
lynall
Well-Known Member
We run a small 23 foot with a single v6 4.3 volvo penta 2009 vintage fitted with neutra salt still on original manifolds, I pulled manifolds down a few weeks back and they are still fine.
Fuel figures are as follows
5 knots 1.5 gph
21 knots 7/9 gph
full chat 31 knots 13 gph
Your boat is bigger and with two engines!
Fuel figures are as follows
5 knots 1.5 gph
21 knots 7/9 gph
full chat 31 knots 13 gph
Your boat is bigger and with two engines!
boatingdave
Well-Known Member
We had a Fairline targa 33 with twin V6 petrol engines. Huge mistake running it on a river, coked up regularly and carried at least two sets of plugs and learnt to be able to change them quite quickly. Petrol is difficult to get on the river too, I had not choice but to use jerry cans.
Coastal, petrol is more available, well it was in marinas within the Bristol Channel anyway. If the boat is cheap and you don't mind hanging on to it and accept the safety issues then there are advantages but it has to be an informed decision. There are up sides and I have to admit petrol engines just purr and sound nicer than diesels although we have twin diesels in our current boat for all the reasons cited in this thread so far.
Coastal, petrol is more available, well it was in marinas within the Bristol Channel anyway. If the boat is cheap and you don't mind hanging on to it and accept the safety issues then there are advantages but it has to be an informed decision. There are up sides and I have to admit petrol engines just purr and sound nicer than diesels although we have twin diesels in our current boat for all the reasons cited in this thread so far.
wipe_out
Well-Known Member
Everyone has mentioned the downside of petrol engines in that they use more in fuel.. Some have mentioned the plus site is that you pay a LOT less for the boat in the beginning and can buy a lot of petrol for the price difference..
A huge plus, especially on an older boat, the that if a petrol engine fails completely it's relatively cheap to replace the whole thing where as if a marine diesel fails you will need to re-mortgage your house to get a new one..
From what I have read in the past going from one to two engines doesn't mean double the fuel.. It does mean more than a single larger engine to produce the same power because of things like friction and drag but it's not double, not even close to double.. Also remember you are talking about quite a powerful boat.. With two 4.3L engines you are somewhere between 200hp and 225hp each so about 400hp-450hp total.. A single 5.7L V8 is around 260hp-300hp so you would probably looking at a highly tuned performance 5.7l V8 or something like an 8L V8 to get the equivalent power which are going to use just as much petrol to produce that amount of power.. In diesel you are probably looking at two heavy lumps that have to be dragged around and I don't know how easily you would get the equivalent power to fit into the hull..
Also consider the type of boating you plan on doing.. I have a 25ft sports cruiser with a single 5.7L V8, we bought her with a broken engine and fitted and bran new one from carb to the exhaust risers.. If I was blasting it at full speed everywhere I would have a big petrol bill but typically we cruise, often quite slowly, somewhere nice and then put the anchor down and spend a few hours just enjoying where we are..
Oh and when you do open the throttles the sound is just glorious!!
A huge plus, especially on an older boat, the that if a petrol engine fails completely it's relatively cheap to replace the whole thing where as if a marine diesel fails you will need to re-mortgage your house to get a new one..
From what I have read in the past going from one to two engines doesn't mean double the fuel.. It does mean more than a single larger engine to produce the same power because of things like friction and drag but it's not double, not even close to double.. Also remember you are talking about quite a powerful boat.. With two 4.3L engines you are somewhere between 200hp and 225hp each so about 400hp-450hp total.. A single 5.7L V8 is around 260hp-300hp so you would probably looking at a highly tuned performance 5.7l V8 or something like an 8L V8 to get the equivalent power which are going to use just as much petrol to produce that amount of power.. In diesel you are probably looking at two heavy lumps that have to be dragged around and I don't know how easily you would get the equivalent power to fit into the hull..
Also consider the type of boating you plan on doing.. I have a 25ft sports cruiser with a single 5.7L V8, we bought her with a broken engine and fitted and bran new one from carb to the exhaust risers.. If I was blasting it at full speed everywhere I would have a big petrol bill but typically we cruise, often quite slowly, somewhere nice and then put the anchor down and spend a few hours just enjoying where we are..
Oh and when you do open the throttles the sound is just glorious!!
Nautorius
Well-Known Member
Twin Petrols only work in certain situations. I have had a Twin Petrol, lovely to own, nightmare to run and completely impossible to sell....in the UK. The only use is in fast day boats, and then really only in the Med. You want one to blast from A-B, moor up, swim for a few hours, have lunch, swim some more then go home, then you get a big boat for great money. But they are not ideal for cruising as it does not make it cost effective. I like Petrols a lot, have a 2008 5.7GXI in my Old Sunseeker. Reliable, cost effective, powerful and sounds great. Last year I bought a New Twin Petrol for a friend. He wanted it as a Med day boat to blast from A-B, use as a swim platform etc. I got a 48% discount off list and had lots of extras thrown in. For him it works and we only pay 75p a litre for petrol here in Gibraltar, so cost not an issue. Even with the silly price he paid it will be difficult to shift....but he will use it for years and can afford the petrol. Think what you want it for....if cruising under 26ft get single petrol, if over get diesel. Buy in haste, repent at leisure because you will not sell it easily and will lose a fortune!
boatingdave
Well-Known Member
I have to agree. As mentioned previously if the boat is appropriately priced and you understand the cost and fuel implications? Petrol engines are easier to maintain and I'm surprised no one has mentioned the safety advantage with two engines versus one. I would be reluctant to go out coastal with a vessel with only one engine. If one stops you can still limp home with just the one albeit steering would be affected. I appreciate many boaters do have only single engines but that is just my own preference. You don't even have sails!
Good luck, trust you make the right decision, you will have noticed the mixed opinions as each boater will have their own preference, doesn't necessarily mean its right or wrong ;-)
Good luck, trust you make the right decision, you will have noticed the mixed opinions as each boater will have their own preference, doesn't necessarily mean its right or wrong ;-)
Everyone has mentioned the downside of petrol engines in that they use more in fuel.. Some have mentioned the plus site is that you pay a LOT less for the boat in the beginning and can buy a lot of petrol for the price difference..
A huge plus, especially on an older boat, the that if a petrol engine fails completely it's relatively cheap to replace the whole thing where as if a marine diesel fails you will need to re-mortgage your house to get a new one..
From what I have read in the past going from one to two engines doesn't mean double the fuel.. It does mean more than a single larger engine to produce the same power because of things like friction and drag but it's not double, not even close to double.. Also remember you are talking about quite a powerful boat.. With two 4.3L engines you are somewhere between 200hp and 225hp each so about 400hp-450hp total.. A single 5.7L V8 is around 260hp-300hp so you would probably looking at a highly tuned performance 5.7l V8 or something like an 8L V8 to get the equivalent power which are going to use just as much petrol to produce that amount of power.. In diesel you are probably looking at two heavy lumps that have to be dragged around and I don't know how easily you would get the equivalent power to fit into the hull..
Also consider the type of boating you plan on doing.. I have a 25ft sports cruiser with a single 5.7L V8, we bought her with a broken engine and fitted and bran new one from carb to the exhaust risers.. If I was blasting it at full speed everywhere I would have a big petrol bill but typically we cruise, often quite slowly, somewhere nice and then put the anchor down and spend a few hours just enjoying where we are..
Oh and when you do open the throttles the sound is just glorious!!
julians
Well-Known Member
At that size its going to be hard to sell on, and thirsty to run. I dont think there is any doubt about this. But if you can get it for the right price it might make sense for you and yourcircumstances. The difference in price between this one and a diesel could buy a lot of fuel.
Im with a lot of the others , once you get much over 25 foot, then you start to hit deisel territory. Having said all that, We used to own a 28 foot regal with twin 4.3 v6 mercruisers, it wasnt actually that expensive to run, and it sold easy enough, was really fast too, and sounded great. This was in the med though, dont think it would have sold as quick in the uk.
Im with a lot of the others , once you get much over 25 foot, then you start to hit deisel territory. Having said all that, We used to own a 28 foot regal with twin 4.3 v6 mercruisers, it wasnt actually that expensive to run, and it sold easy enough, was really fast too, and sounded great. This was in the med though, dont think it would have sold as quick in the uk.
gsturgeon
Well-Known Member
Twin petrol real world facts
Attached is a photo of the fuel computer on my twin Merc Bayliner showing two seasons consumption.
You will see that it's less then seven gals an hour, about £50 or <£2000 a season.
The mooring fees and depreciation are the main cost, not the fuel
How this can be considered a problem is beyond me. If the engines were diesel then I might save half of this and if the engines went wrong it would be possible to economically replace them - there would be no point replacing diesels in a elderly boat.
The truth is that we don't cruise flat out and most of our time is spent crossing the harbour or going up rivers with a 20 knt cruise between. The engines are never run at WOT. nor do we travel vast distances and I suspect this is fairly typical usage.
Thirteen years on, the engines have never broken down and are having the headers changed for the first time as a precaution.
So don't dismiss twin petrols out of hand...
Attached is a photo of the fuel computer on my twin Merc Bayliner showing two seasons consumption.
You will see that it's less then seven gals an hour, about £50 or <£2000 a season.
The mooring fees and depreciation are the main cost, not the fuel
How this can be considered a problem is beyond me. If the engines were diesel then I might save half of this and if the engines went wrong it would be possible to economically replace them - there would be no point replacing diesels in a elderly boat.
The truth is that we don't cruise flat out and most of our time is spent crossing the harbour or going up rivers with a 20 knt cruise between. The engines are never run at WOT. nor do we travel vast distances and I suspect this is fairly typical usage.
Thirteen years on, the engines have never broken down and are having the headers changed for the first time as a precaution.
So don't dismiss twin petrols out of hand...
Attachments
gary111160
Well-Known Member
I run a Fjord 32 with twin volvo 205a's which are V6 4.3 205hp. I burn 72l/ph at 20knts. (both engines) I don't consider that excessive. Especially taking into account the saving in purchase price and servicing or replacement engine if anything catastrophic happened to one! There again My boat is 1973 vintage and the engines 1989. I don't know the price of the bavaria in question but for a newer boat and I assume bigger purchase price I would prefer twin diesel but mainly for the ease of getting fuel. I top up with jerry cans after every trip out which why I know exactly what my fuel burn is as the tanks are always full. Yes that bit is a pain!!.
Gary
Gary
