lustyd
Well-known member
in the galley rack, there was a bigger rack under the saloon table 
Twin Electric! Salona Yachts
- Thread starter lustyd
- Start date
Tomahawk
Well-known member
I must admit that hybrid tech from cars could have interesting ramifications for sailboats.
scruff
Well-known member
If tend to agree, electric propulsion will be the way forward for most of us in the coming decades.
Rubbishing the whole genre of technology because it can't do 2 niche journeys (ICW and Panama canal) is a bit of a Strawman argument really. You could just plug in a small generator for the 2 days in your life you're traversing the canal.
Rubbishing the whole genre of technology because it can't do 2 niche journeys (ICW and Panama canal) is a bit of a Strawman argument really. You could just plug in a small generator for the 2 days in your life you're traversing the canal.
Frogmogman
Well-known member
I find the whole thing very seductive. As Lustyd says, it's not about the tree-hugging (although I'm not against that). If you can get away without having a noisy, smelly diesel engine and instead have something that is quiet and very low maintenance; apart from the initial cost, what's not to like ?
On a boat such as this Salona, that is clearly pretty quick under sail, the potential for regeneration is excellent. That it's a boat that will sail well even in light airs means the need to use the auxiliary power should be kept to a minimum.
I'd be interested to know what the overall weight of the installation is compared to a traditional set-up of engine, gearbox, propshaft/saildrive, along with 200 litres of diesel.
On a boat such as this Salona, that is clearly pretty quick under sail, the potential for regeneration is excellent. That it's a boat that will sail well even in light airs means the need to use the auxiliary power should be kept to a minimum.
I'd be interested to know what the overall weight of the installation is compared to a traditional set-up of engine, gearbox, propshaft/saildrive, along with 200 litres of diesel.
wully1
Well-known member
I thought that as well - I wonder if the drives prevent them having the very trendy twin rudders of the fat arse generation boats due to the turbulence?
Rappey
Well-known member
I would love a system like this boat has and it's great that some are brave enough to build a boat utilising electric motors.
There are up to 80 ft motor cats with a huge amount of solar panels that can motor under solar !
70k more though is way to much . Could buy a nice diesel equiped yacht for that money.
There are up to 80 ft motor cats with a huge amount of solar panels that can motor under solar !
70k more though is way to much . Could buy a nice diesel equiped yacht for that money.
Frogmogman
Well-known member
On the video someone makes the point that from a regeneration point of view, the screws are better off out of the turbulence from the keel. There would be no disadvantage in twin rudders with this sort of set-up, as the screws are well forward of the rudders.
One of the big downsides of twin rudders has always been the loss of manoeuvrability due to lack of prop-wash on the rudders. With a twin prop system, manoeuvrability just isn't going to be an issue.
lustyd
Well-known member
I don't think the base price includes a diesel system either though so it's not 70k extra. I've not seen the price list though, anyone know where it was?
geem
Well-known member
Its not a new development. The technology has been about for years. A boat builder friend of mine looked at it in depth several years ago for a new catamaran. The conclusion was it was not cost effective and it didn't provide any benefit. In the end he opted for diesel. Its great that you are excited. I am happy for you but its a gimmick in the real world.Oh it is capable of long distance, you're just ignoring everything about how it goes about that for some reason. You can do 8.3 days of constant motoring, these can do infinite days of motoring as long as you have some sailing or sunshine between those days. Your boat has a modern late generation diesel system while this has a first generation system. Onve your diesel is gone it's gone and you're stranded until you get more, when the battery drains on this it will recharge using the magic of nature. Your 8.3 days will be utter misery with noise and vibration....but you've probably already started typing your predictable response about why one specific use case that you absolutely must have will be the downfall of this whole technology. Meanwhile the rest of us are excited to see this advancement
Rappey
Well-known member
This powered cat is interesting. can motor at 5knts "forever" on solar power..
Ningaloo
Well-known member
the starting price of the basic model Salona 46 is exactly 259,000 euros, and when the electric drive system is installed, the price increases by another 70,000 euros.
Displacement (empty): 9,200kg electric, 9,800kg diesel so pretty light for a 46ft.
I'm rather taken by this although my next boat will have a (hopefully) trusty Yanmar. Now, why did they need gas for cooking?
Uma seems to have done well cruising and crossing oceans for 6 years on electric propulsion, but Jimmy Cornell's recent attempt to get around the globe with his electric catamaran wasn't successful so maybe this is still very much a niche market.
Displacement (empty): 9,200kg electric, 9,800kg diesel so pretty light for a 46ft.
I'm rather taken by this although my next boat will have a (hopefully) trusty Yanmar. Now, why did they need gas for cooking?
Uma seems to have done well cruising and crossing oceans for 6 years on electric propulsion, but Jimmy Cornell's recent attempt to get around the globe with his electric catamaran wasn't successful so maybe this is still very much a niche market.
lustyd
Well-known member
It's certainly niche right now, but then this seems to be the first yacht designed for the task. With the increased range and simplicity I imagine it will catch on. This would certainly be a good option for my sailing around the solent and channel.
lustyd
Well-known member
it's interesting because that link also states it's an electric yacht and doesn't confirm the base price includes an engine, which they describe as an optional change in the video. I'd love to know because if the diesel is a £40k option, which is quite realistic with the extra plumbing, tanks, engine, and still having electrics then the difference is negligable in the grand scheme of things. Thinking about it, I'd be concerned about getting the diesel as you'd lose out on the regen and end up fitting a relatively poor solar installation. You'd also lose out on the manoevrability and have to fit a bow thruster which would also add some costs.
De.windhoos
Active member
What I find interesting is the use of 2 engines with 2 props. Does that mean you can use 1 engine for propulsion and use the other one for regeneration? (I do understand that you would go slower). This would increase your range drastically!
wully1
Well-known member
I was talking about the turbulence over the rudders...
Neeves
Well-known member
I challenge the idea that the yacht is the 'first' designed for the task.
It was mentioned that the build included a steel frame - used by X-yachts for decades.
But, and I have only seen the first 15 minutes so far .... later
Why on earth was the battery bank under the saloon steps. They have a whacking great keel within which , with some forethought, the batteries could have been contained. Hollow steel keels are not uncommon, some are used to store water, some fuel - why not the batteries. It seemed the battery location was an after thought - just a spare space left when they suddenly realised that no longer needed the space for the diesel engine. Batteries do not require to be serviced, they should last for a number of years, building a keel to house batteries (though the batteries might need to be supplied as flat rather than a squat shape).
Just a thought.
Again I have not looked at the second 15 minutes.
With our twin diesels we can achieve 7 knots with 2 engines running and 5 knots running only one engine (approximately) (2 x 20hp). If we are motoring we obviously use only one engine. I'm waiting, in anticipation, to see if the same is true on this yacht - as then the range increases.
I have a friend building a 50' all electric (including galley) cat. The build has unfortunately been temporarily terminated. The build is in Thailand and my friend lives in Oz. He cannot visit and supervise. When he launches I'm hoping to be able to add to the limited information on the 'all electric yacht'. But don't get excited, yet.
Jonathan
Ningaloo
Well-known member
The boat comes with a yanmar engine as standard and this is included in the base price I quoted from the linked article. The €70k for electric is an extra on top of the base price. But I guess you save 10-15 on not having a thruster and maybe 2k on not needing solar - though without this you would not be able to stay on anchor for too long.
The keel is pretty slim and there would be limited volume for batteries there and appalling access should any checking be required. Plus there is a void where the engine would otherwise go in the standard configuration. Maybe when electric propulsion becomes commonplace the keel might be used?
I also wondered if one engine (or even a Watt&Sea pod) could be used for regeneration at reduced speed, but I'm not sure a single engine would get you to sufficient speed on its own.
This is certainly not the first boat to be designed for electric propulsion but it's the first I've seen at this entry-level price point.
The keel is pretty slim and there would be limited volume for batteries there and appalling access should any checking be required. Plus there is a void where the engine would otherwise go in the standard configuration. Maybe when electric propulsion becomes commonplace the keel might be used?
I also wondered if one engine (or even a Watt&Sea pod) could be used for regeneration at reduced speed, but I'm not sure a single engine would get you to sufficient speed on its own.
This is certainly not the first boat to be designed for electric propulsion but it's the first I've seen at this entry-level price point.
lustyd
Well-known member
I’m sure one motor could be used but it wouldn’t increase range more than running both at half speed. Where the two are useful is regen and at 2KW that’s outstanding.
you’re right solar likely will still be fitted. It’s odd that the diesel is standard given they’re billing it as an electric yacht which can optionally have a diesel. That kind of detracts from the message for me, but if you think of the electric as standard it’s still interesting to look at what you lose by opting for diesel which I think is significant.
you’re right solar likely will still be fitted. It’s odd that the diesel is standard given they’re billing it as an electric yacht which can optionally have a diesel. That kind of detracts from the message for me, but if you think of the electric as standard it’s still interesting to look at what you lose by opting for diesel which I think is significant.
geem
Well-known member
If you were living off the hook for a few weeks you will still need the Solar installation. You need some way of putting back fridge/freezer loads, lighting etc. Who in their right mind would pay an additional £70k for a system with less flexibility unless you don't really go anywhere? It would be fine for day sailing and back to the marina at night.
Based on a season use of fuel at about 500 litres per season the £70k buys me 115 years of diesel??
Robih
Well-known member
At the risk of being labelled a Luddite can I ask what is the expected battery life?