Twin diesel vs twin petrol conundrum...
- Thread starter rbcoomer
- Start date
rbcoomer
Well-Known Member
Haha! Bouba - I was waiting for that! 
Shafts aren't an option on the boat in question, so don't have that dilemma to consider. (nor are outboards)
I think after some long discussions with Missus, we will opt to forego the dream for a few more years as the extra 10K needed for diesel will be better spent on various long-overdue home-improvement jobs. Running costs aren't really the issue as I really do think that given the age difference in engines, they will be on a par. The less the boat is used due to weather, work etc the more the maintenance costs equalise. As I said at the beginning, if the engines & drives had been the same age or the boats the same price then the petrol option wouldn't have even been considered. The petrol boat has also been refitted, so not just engines that are likely to in better order. We've accepted that deferring will quite probably mean never, but hey, that's life and common sense usually prevails in these things!
Plan B is to spend £10K on a 25' single engined diesel on a trailer that ticks some of the boxes and stick the other £10K in ISA's for a few years. This route would also mean a saving of around £3K a year in running costs and I can recover on a trailer for maintenance. We can still trade up in 3-5 years to a twin diesel - by which time they'll have fallen further in price and I'll be closer to funding a pair of newer, quieter lumps for transplant if required! (possibly even buying a bargain basement twin petrol for immediate repower)
Thanks once again for all the feedback - probably told me what I initially thought and that was to give a wide berth! :encouragement:
Shafts aren't an option on the boat in question, so don't have that dilemma to consider. (nor are outboards)
I think after some long discussions with Missus, we will opt to forego the dream for a few more years as the extra 10K needed for diesel will be better spent on various long-overdue home-improvement jobs. Running costs aren't really the issue as I really do think that given the age difference in engines, they will be on a par. The less the boat is used due to weather, work etc the more the maintenance costs equalise. As I said at the beginning, if the engines & drives had been the same age or the boats the same price then the petrol option wouldn't have even been considered. The petrol boat has also been refitted, so not just engines that are likely to in better order. We've accepted that deferring will quite probably mean never, but hey, that's life and common sense usually prevails in these things!
Plan B is to spend £10K on a 25' single engined diesel on a trailer that ticks some of the boxes and stick the other £10K in ISA's for a few years. This route would also mean a saving of around £3K a year in running costs and I can recover on a trailer for maintenance. We can still trade up in 3-5 years to a twin diesel - by which time they'll have fallen further in price and I'll be closer to funding a pair of newer, quieter lumps for transplant if required! (possibly even buying a bargain basement twin petrol for immediate repower)
Thanks once again for all the feedback - probably told me what I initially thought and that was to give a wide berth! :encouragement:
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rbcoomer
Well-Known Member
Nearly forgot, but to finish off, I should reveal for those that didn't know/guess, the boat in question was a Portofino 31. It wasn't really a secret, I just didn't want to open the debate too wide.
Many may question why, but for us the layout and style of these classics just ticked all the right boxes!
Many may question why, but for us the layout and style of these classics just ticked all the right boxes!
oldgit
Well-Known Member
This question is bit of a regular and having gone through the same dilemma many years ago would like to sum it all up.
It normally rears its ugly head on the transition from small speedboat/ cuddy type fishing boat with outboard, frequently on a trailer.
The idea is something a bit more stable,perhaps even a proper bog and galley and the ability to stay away a little longer and to sleep over night in some sort of comfort.
The boater will at this stage* still be clinging to the laughable illusion that a whizzy sports boat is going to enhance his sexual prowess/give him back his hair/knock ten years off his age,so sports boats it is then.
*Most do grow out of this stage but not all but all your mates know who you are
Confronted with small amount available after selling his speedboat and the ridiculous amounts of money demanded on 30 year old Targas or much newer built out of tinsle and egg cartons newer boats, he wanders the marinas in a desolate mood.
He would rather chew glass than be seen at the helm of an olde persons boat.
Scanning the brokers website he spots a really immaculate boat with amazingly low hours and its in his price range.....Hope springs eternal so off he trots.
The boat is immaculate, the buyer,who has only had the boat a short time, is really really keen to sell .......purely as he is upgrading.
All is going well until you lift the engine cover.....and there blinking in the light are a couple of engines in a stunning shade of RED.
The last sound you remember is the brokers voice telling you just how economical a pair of V8 /V6/inline 4 petrols can be.......
Virtually all of us with pockets a great deal smaller that our ambitions have gone down this path and just note that virtually everyone about to suggest to you that petrols are not really that bad has probably got a petrol boat.
That was me included until we saw the light.
It normally rears its ugly head on the transition from small speedboat/ cuddy type fishing boat with outboard, frequently on a trailer.
The idea is something a bit more stable,perhaps even a proper bog and galley and the ability to stay away a little longer and to sleep over night in some sort of comfort.
The boater will at this stage* still be clinging to the laughable illusion that a whizzy sports boat is going to enhance his sexual prowess/give him back his hair/knock ten years off his age,so sports boats it is then.
*Most do grow out of this stage but not all but all your mates know who you are
Confronted with small amount available after selling his speedboat and the ridiculous amounts of money demanded on 30 year old Targas or much newer built out of tinsle and egg cartons newer boats, he wanders the marinas in a desolate mood.
He would rather chew glass than be seen at the helm of an olde persons boat.
Scanning the brokers website he spots a really immaculate boat with amazingly low hours and its in his price range.....Hope springs eternal so off he trots.
The boat is immaculate, the buyer,who has only had the boat a short time, is really really keen to sell .......purely as he is upgrading.
All is going well until you lift the engine cover.....and there blinking in the light are a couple of engines in a stunning shade of RED.
The last sound you remember is the brokers voice telling you just how economical a pair of V8 /V6/inline 4 petrols can be.......
Virtually all of us with pockets a great deal smaller that our ambitions have gone down this path and just note that virtually everyone about to suggest to you that petrols are not really that bad has probably got a petrol boat.
That was me included until we saw the light.
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ari
Well-Known Member
This is actually a very good question - so I made some enquiries at lunchtime and found out.
The answer is yes, there may be a slight difference in premium between an otherwise identical petrol and diesel boat (so same age, same power, same speed etc - so to use rbcoomber's example, one Sunseeker Portofino 31 with twin 200hp petrols, the other Sunseeker 31 Portofino with twin 200hp diesels).
Assuming that the diesel boat has a higher insured value (ie it cost/is worth more - as is likely), the premium for the diesel boat would be slightly higher, because in a total loss, the payout would be higher.
But no, there is no premium loading for a petrol boat over a diesel (assuming everything else equal) as the reality is no measurable increase in risk.
He did say that if the diesel boat had a small four cylinder motor (for example) and the petrol was a big V8 then it could be possible that the increase in top speed pushed the faster boat into a higher risk band, but that was purely down to speed - would be the same if you were comparing a small petrol and a big diesel where the latter pushed the speed into a higher band.
So to answer the question, as far as boat insurance is concerned, the risk profile of petrol and diesel boats is identical.
Bouba
Well-Known Member
This question is bit of a regular and having gone through the same dilemma many years ago would like to sum it all up.
It normally rears its ugly head on the transition from small speedboat/ cuddy type fishing boat with outboard, frequently on a trailer.
The idea is something a bit more stable,perhaps even a proper bog and galley and the ability to stay away a little longer and to sleep over night in some sort of comfort.
The boater will at this stage* still be clinging to the laughable illusion that a whizzy sports boat is going to enhance his sexual prowess/give him back his hair/knock ten years off his age,so sports boats it is then.
*Most do grow out of this stage but not all but all your mates know who you are
Confronted with small amount available after selling his speedboat and the ridiculous amounts of money demanded on 30 year old Targas or much newer built out of tinsle and egg cartons newer boats, he wanders the marinas in a desolate mood.
He would rather chew glass than be seen at the helm of an olde persons boat.
Scanning the brokers website he spots a really immaculate boat with amazingly low hours and its in his price range.....Hope springs eternal so off he trots.
The boat is immaculate, the buyer,who has only had the boat a short time, is really really keen to sell .......purely as he is upgrading.
All is going well until you lift the engine cover.....and there blinking in the light are a couple of engines in a stunning shade of RED.
The last sound you remember is the brokers voice telling you just how economical a pair of V8 /V6/inline 4 petrols can be.......
Virtually all of us with pockets a great deal smaller that our ambitions have gone down this path and just note that virtually everyone about to suggest to you that petrols are not really that bad has probably got a petrol boat.
That was me included until we saw the light.
True words of wisdom to live by:encouragement:
rbcoomer
Well-Known Member
That's quite an interesting point - I had assumed the insurance costs would be comparable, but confess I hadn't looked into that aspect in that much detail. The petrols in question are faster, but probably not enough to push up insurance. 400hp vs 550hp total. In reality probably another 10kts?
Bouba
Well-Known Member
The popularity of diesel in the U.K. is due to the historic availability of red diesel. This has created a false economic advantage for diesels. The 60-40 deal with the EU hasn't changed the situation enough to change anything. With Brexit it is even possible it may return to the old formula (don't hold your breath). This economic advantage, that we don't have in France, can only be offset by cheaper petrol engines and by the reliability of modern outboards. But this history has left us with a poor petrol infrastructure which only tips the balance further towards diesel. As I said earlier it will probably take anti-diesel legislation to change things. But like diesel cars we could all be left owning expensive machinery that is banned from all the places we bought the thing to get to in the first place.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Thx for taking the trouble to do this - that's a reassuring bit of research :encouragement:
ari
Well-Known Member
You're welcome, I thought it was a very good question.
TheOrs
Well-Known Member
It normally rears its ugly head on the transition from small speedboat/ cuddy type fishing boat with outboard, frequently on a trailer.
The idea is something a bit more stable,perhaps even a proper bog and galley and the ability to stay away a little longer and to sleep over night in some sort of comfort.
The boater will at this stage* still be clinging to the laughable illusion that a whizzy sports boat is going to enhance his sexual prowess/give him back his hair/knock ten years off his age,so sports boats it is then.
*Most do grow out of this stage but not all but all your mates know who you are
Confronted with small amount available after selling his speedboat and the ridiculous amounts of money demanded on 30 year old Targas or much newer built out of tinsle and egg cartons newer boats, he wanders the marinas in a desolate mood.
He would rather chew glass than be seen at the helm of an olde persons boat.
Scanning the brokers website he spots a really immaculate boat with amazingly low hours and its in his price range.....Hope springs eternal so off he trots.
The boat is immaculate, the buyer,who has only had the boat a short time, is really really keen to sell .......purely as he is upgrading.
All is going well until you lift the engine cover.....and there blinking in the light are a couple of engines in a stunning shade of RED.
The last sound you remember is the brokers voice telling you just how economical a pair of V8 /V6/inline 4 petrols can be.......
Are you stalking me?
oldgit
Well-Known Member
Are you stalking me?
That depends.....
For those who want a cheap twin petrol boat this may indicate what they are really worth.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealine-3...777839?hash=item3adb441eef:g:~TwAAOSwCU1Yqr-o
CX54WEK
Well-Known Member
That depends.....
For those who want a cheap twin petrol boat this may indicate what they are really worth.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealine-3...777839?hash=item3adb441eef:g:~TwAAOSwCU1Yqr-o
That to me looks bit overpriced for a project boat!
beejay190
Well-Known Member
I think you are right there. If i owned that boat i would gladly give it away just to saving berthing fees.
[ I reckon the OP should save his pennies and buy an S23. Solid little Sportscruiser that doesn't depreciate much ]
[2068]
...
All depends on whether it's the engines themselves that have seized, or not,
oceanfroggie
Well-Known Member
Aside from the risk of a fire on any type of boat, there is the separate risk of escaping a petrol boat on fire. The two crew of this vessel 12 years ago possibly may not have made it, except for the precious time slow burning and non-explosive diesel gave them before rescue arrived.
No Regrets
Well-Known Member
Aside from the risk of a fire on any type of boat, there is the separate risk of escaping a petrol boat on fire. The two crew of this vessel 12 years ago possibly may not have made it, except for the precious time slow burning and non-explosive diesel gave them before rescue arrived.
Love to see Ari on this one! I'll bet his pathetic little smirk would be slightly different :encouragement:
ari
Well-Known Member
It's always lovely to have an adult and reasoned debate.
So we've had petrol boats on fire to prove petrol boats are 'a substantial risk', now we have a diesel boat on fire to, err, prove that petrol boats are 'a substantial risk'. Somehow.
So, to answer Oceanfroggie's point.
Would it have been worse had there been petrol on board? Yes.
But would it have been worse if the boat wasn't close inshore? Yes.
Would it have been worse if it hadn't been calm conditions? Yes.
Would it have been worse if there hadn't been other boats nearby? Yes.
Would it be worse if it were at night? Yes.
So does that prove that it's a 'substantial risk' to run a petrol boat? Well only if you agree that it's a 'substantial risk' to go offshore, a 'substantial risk' to go boating when there aren't other boats nearby, a 'substantial risk' to go out if sea conditions aren't calm or a 'substantial risk' to go boating at night?
You can point to any incident to try and 'prove' that the thing involved is a 'substantial risk' - as I mentioned earlier, 1,000 people a year die falling down stairs.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/790609.stm
I still live in a house though, and I suspect so do most people on this thread that do won't be moving to a bungalow now that they know this.
CX54WEK
Well-Known Member
It's always lovely to have an adult and reasoned debate.
So we've had petrol boats on fire to prove petrol boats are 'a substantial risk', now we have a diesel boat on fire to, err, prove that petrol boats are 'a substantial risk'. Somehow.
So, to answer Oceanfroggie's point.
Would it have been worse had there been petrol on board? Yes.
But would it have been worse if the boat wasn't close inshore? Yes.
Would it have been worse if it hadn't been calm conditions? Yes.
Would it have been worse if there hadn't been other boats nearby? Yes.
Would it be worse if it were at night? Yes.
So does that prove that it's a 'substantial risk' to run a petrol boat? Well only if you agree that it's a 'substantial risk' to go offshore, a 'substantial risk' to go boating when there aren't other boats nearby, a 'substantial risk' to go out if sea conditions aren't calm or a 'substantial risk' to go boating at night?
You can point to any incident to try and 'prove' that the thing involved is a 'substantial risk' - as I mentioned earlier, 1,000 people a year die falling down stairs.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/790609.stm
I still live in a house though, and I suspect so do most people on this thread that do won't be moving to a bungalow now that they know this.
Is your boat petrol by any chance?
ari
Well-Known Member
No, diesel. I wouldn't have a petrol boat.
Fuel costs are too high and fuel availability is too sparse.
