Twin diesel vs twin petrol conundrum...

In my opinion, the cost of 'servicing' the two boat will actually be very similar. You mention injection pump and turbos, but these are not what I would call 'service' items. The drives will be pretty much the same to service, and the engines will be almost the same with the diesels probably needing more oil but the petrols needing spark plugs.

The point you are trying to make is not so much servicing/maintaining, it's fixing. Now it was mentioned above that your usage would amount to £2700 per year more in fuel for the petrol boat. A turbo can be had for about £800*. To recon a 290dp drive maybe £1500*. My point is that the savings in fuel should pay for any extra maintenance quite easily, and you still benefit from easy to obtain fuel and a higher demand, higher price, easier sale when the time comes.

Having said that, you appear to have your mind made up, so you should go with what your head is telling you and not listen to us old boogers.

ps. one last point. a paid of mistreated 10 year old drives will be a worse proposition IMHO that a pair of 30 year old well maintained drives. How you find out the reality of their whole life treatment is the difficult thing. Good luck with whichever way you go!

*http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Origi...647984?hash=item237be7dbb0:g:lPAAAOSwEzxYV~ui

*http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volvo-Pen...276312?hash=item4b0af37bd8:g:yV0AAOSwk1JWb9U5 ( I assume there may be some parts on top of this)


Evinrude already offer a 7 year warranty on their new outboards and have just done a promotion that allows you to extend to a 10 year factory warranty. Even at £20K+ for a 250hp motor the costs you're talking about above make them seem quite an option for a new boat, especially for people like me who don't like nasty surprises hitting their rainy day fund. How they can do a warranty like I have no idea...
 
Evinrude -------- How they can do a warranty like I have no idea...

It's built into the original price the 1st punter paid ,based on predictions of likely costs .
Consumer lead nowadays as you say .

Mercedes in the early noughties with there SL range did a similiar thing ,but had to balance the reputation of the brand ,a delicate line to follow .
They introduced a new type of I think from memory wiring harness, a then industry 1st ,loads of ECU,s controlling ,talking to each other in the SL500 .
Thing is they had doughts .
So the out going modal was £70K , they estimated that approx 1 in 10 would be so troublesome that to "save face " re the then Merc rep they would simply swap it ,give the punter another .List was adjusted to £77 k .
Sure enough as predicted punters experianced problems ,I mean engine cut outs in the outside lane of busy motorways ,as well as minor stuff like well as windows opening on there own etc .
Protacol was "3 strikes and you are out " meaning if the car was in the dealer ship for over 3/12 in any particular year in its early life --- give the guy a replacement .
I know a guy who got a replacement ,his spent 8 /12 all in all going back ( with a curtsey car in lieu ) .

So they just factor it in the cost and front load it .
All new Ferraris come with a similiar 7 y service package transferable since 2012 ."Power "warranties too standard 7 y extendable to 10 y I think for about £4-5 K ,optional .

Interesting ?to see what effect all this front loading has on residues in 2019 ? When they drop off .

Although with outboard s like cars i suspect the T+C,s are an intersting read .

Can your local spanner man in a white can stamp the service card I wonder ?

Are some "time " requests /services as well as annual ? To maintain the integrity of the 7 year warranty ?
 
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Latest news, government minister says think before you buy diesel. London study, third of school children exposed to too much pollutants etc etc. We know what follows, diesels banned from city centers, financial penalties etc etc.
Now go further into the future, schools close to canals and rivers, children suffering from diesel boats, ban sale of diesel from inland waterways, financial penalties etc etc.
Now go much further into the future (don't forget we live in accelerated times, far into the future could be just around the corner) poor children living on the coast, those nasty diesel pleasure boats etc etc
Petrol is our future
 
You're giving far too much credit for governments actually thinking - not sure reality bears that out! :D

I think diesel duty will rise, but probably not red. Aviation fuel does immense damage, but is barely taxed at all for political reasons

We're an island nation and commercial vessels use almost 100% derv rather than petrol.
 
You're giving far too much credit for governments actually thinking - not sure reality bears that out! :D

I think diesel duty will rise, but probably not red. Aviation fuel does immense damage, but is barely taxed at all for political reasons

We're an island nation and commercial vessels use almost 100% derv rather than petrol.
Yes, and it's probably diesel buses and trucks that are the problem. The motorist is the easiest target and will be hit first.
Boaters are an even easier target
 
Some dates
HP. Cyl in production



Volvo Penta TAMD30A 110 4 1983 1986
Volvo Penta TAMD31A 130 4 1986 1991
Volvo Penta TAMD31B 110-130 4 1989 1993
Volvo Penta TAMD31D 130 4 1993 1994
Volvo Penta TAMD31L 130 4 1994 2003
Volvo Penta TAMD31L-A 130 4 1994 1998
Volvo Penta TAMD31L-B 130 4 1994 2003
Volvo Penta TAMD31M 110 4 1995 2001
Volvo Penta TAMD31M-A 110 4 1994 2003
Volvo Penta TAMD31M-B 110 4 1994 2003
Volvo Penta TAMD31P-A 150 4 1994 2004
Volvo Penta TAMD31P-B 150 4 1994 1998
Volvo Penta TAMD31S 100 4 2002 2003
Volvo Penta TAMD31S-A 100 4 2002 2003
Volvo Penta TAMD31X 130 4 1993 1993
Volvo Penta TAMD40A 110-148 6 1980 1985
Diesel-Inboard Up
Engine Hp. Cylinders Prod. start Prod. end
Volvo Penta TAMD40B 165 6 1983 1986
Volvo Penta TAMD41A 200 6 1986 1989
Volvo Penta TAMD41B 145-200 6 1989 1993
Volvo Penta TAMD41D 145 6 1993 1994
Volvo Penta TAMD41H 145 6 1998 2004
Volvo Penta TAMD41H-A 145 6 1994 1998
Volvo Penta TAMD41H-B 145 6 1999 1999
Volvo Penta TAMD41L 200 6 1994 2000
Volvo Penta TAMD41M-A 170 6 1994 2004
Volvo Penta TAMD41M-B 170 6 1998 1999
Volvo Penta TAMD41P 200 6 1998 2005
Volvo Penta TAMD41P-A 200 6 1994 2005
Volvo Penta TAMD41P-B 200 6 1998 1999
Volvo Penta TAMD42A 230 6 1992 1993
Volvo Penta TAMD42B 230 6 1993 1996
Volvo Penta TAMD42P-A 230 6 1994 1996
Volvo Penta TAMD42WJ-A 230 6 1995 2003
Volvo Penta KAMD300-A 285 6 2001 2004
Volvo Penta KAMD42A 230 6 1991 1993
Volvo Penta KAMD42B 230 6 1993 1994
Volvo Penta KAMD42P-A 230 6 1994 1997
Volvo Penta KAMD43P 230 6 1997 2005
Volvo Penta KAMD43P-A 230 6 1997 2005
Volvo Penta KAMD43P-B 230 6 1997 2005
Volvo Penta KAMD44P-B 260 6 1999 2002
Volvo Penta KAMD44P-C 260 6 2000 2004
 
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Any savings in purchase price will be similarly lost when resale comes along, so the actual difference in price isn't a gain or loss, it's a more constant.

Running costs will almost certainly be very different, accepting there are a few items which a Diesel could hurt your wallet with if you're unlucky, but Petrols also suffer issues with Ignition components and Carbs which tend to fail more regularly than the Diesel bits, however Fuel costs will always suffer badly with a Petrol boat.

Add up five years worth of Fuel costs, and it'll eat badly into the savings you make buying a Petrol, and when it comes to resale, you will wish you had a Diesel, as your boat will be a lot harder to sell to a far smaller audience and at a similarly lower price than you paid for it.

Even if you don't consider the not-unsubstantial risk of carrying Petrol on the boat and it's a no brainer.
 
Some dates

Diesel-Inboard Up
Engine Hp. Cylinders Prod. start Prod. end
Volvo Penta TAMD40B 165 6 1983 1986
Volvo Penta TAMD41A 200 6 1986 1989
Volvo Penta TAMD41B 145-200 6 1989 1993
Volvo Penta TAMD41D 145 6 1993 1994
Volvo Penta TAMD41H 145 6 1998 2004
Volvo Penta TAMD41H-A 145 6 1994 1998
Volvo Penta TAMD41H-B 145 6 1999 1999
Volvo Penta TAMD41L 200 6 1994 2000
Volvo Penta TAMD41M-A 170 6 1994 2004
Volvo Penta TAMD41M-B 170 6 1998 1999
Volvo Penta TAMD41P 200 6 1998 2005
Volvo Penta TAMD41P-A 200 6 1994 2005

That's extremely interesting, thanks Scottie.

There you go OP, should give you some reassurance regarding parts availability I would think?
 
That's extremely interesting, thanks Scottie.

There you go OP, should give you some reassurance regarding parts availability I would think?

Wow, the 41 was still in production in 2005! My 31 went out of production in 1998.
 
Precisely. Of all the engines VP have made, I really can't imagine they'd be in a hurry to kill the Golden Goose that must be aftersales parts for this particular model...
 
There is is again - a substantial risk. Amazing...

Before you congratulate yourself on your pointless and inaccurate response, I can assure you that during my eight years extensively boating on the River Thames, with Petrol and Diesel boats, I have seen and heard of around three boats a year catching fire, all of them Petrol powered and none of them arson.

It's almost unheard of Diesel powered boats catching fire up here due to propulsion fuel issues, and furthermore people has been gassed to death with Petrol powered boats due to CO poisoning.

So I will stick to my 'Not unsubstantial risk' (rather than your own incorrect statement) and you know exactly what you can stick, and where.

Remember, when heckling, you are supposed to make me look stupid, not the other way round :nonchalance:
 
Ari - can you factually support your argument with actuarial evidence from boat insurance Co,s
Like for like two identital boats ,except ones a twin Petrol ,other is a twin diesel , will there's be a premium difference ?

If so ARi why do think that might be ?

On that thought over say a 5-7 y ownership period would insurance cost difference ,if any ( i don,t know,but like No Regrets have pretty good gut feeling ) be anything to worry about --- i mean help the Op dicide ?

I think the excess fuel Bill issue ,we all understand .
 
I would sum it up thus: with a petrol powered boat there is a slightly higher risk of fire or explosion, mainly surrounding poor refuelling practices, but also associated with any leak in the fuel system, the latter of which is actually quite rare.

Many boat fires are caused by electrical faults, which do not care what fuel you have on board.

There is a significant increase in the risk of CO poisoning with a petrol powered boat.

Petrol boat will cost significantly more to run, possibly up to double once you take into account the higher price of marine petrol.

Petrol boat will be cheaper, but more difficult to sell
Diesel boat will be more expensive, but will retain a significant margin over a petrol boat during ownership and will be easier to sell.

Modern diesels are complicated and totally reliant on electronics, so the argument that they were more reliable in a marine environment is no longer credible.
 
Reminded me a bit of this :)

An American investment banker was taking a much-needed vacation in a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. The boat had several large, fresh fish in it.

The investment banker was impressed by the quality of the fish and asked the Mexican how long it took to catch them.

The Mexican replied, “Only a little while.”

The banker then asked why he didn’t stay out longer and catch more fish?

The Mexican fisherman replied he had enough to support his family’s immediate needs.

The American then asked “But what do you do with the rest of your time?”

The Mexican fisherman replied, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siesta with my wife, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos: I have a full and busy life, señor.”

The investment banker scoffed, “I am an Ivy League MBA, and I could help you. You could spend more time fishing and with the proceeds buy a bigger boat, and with the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats until eventually you would have a whole fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to the middleman you could sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You could control the product, processing and distribution.”

Then he added, “Of course, you would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City where you would run your growing enterprise.”

The Mexican fisherman asked, “But señor, how long will this all take?”

To which the American replied, “15-20 years.”

“But what then?” asked the Mexican.

The American laughed and said, “That’s the best part. When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich. You could make millions.”

“Millions, señor? Then what?”

To which the investment banker replied, “Then you would retire. You could move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos.”
 
A variety of highly entertaining posts. Sounds like property interests first. If you have access to diesel engines at economical purchase cost have you considered popping one in your Arrowbolt?
It doesn't look like it'll be too long before you'll be able to hang a diesel or two on the back of a number of craft if the commercial market is anything to go by. It certainly looks like the future is electric followed by much more efficient diesels and lastly the gas guzzlers.
 
I believe the original conundrum was newish twin petrols compared to old twin diesels and I am faced with the same dilemma!
Petrol availability, safety and transportation aside, the biggest problem I have on my aging petrols are parts availability. Having wasted many “sailing” days scouring auction sites and aftermarket sites here and in the States the last thing I want is aging unreliable diesels where parts are becoming obsolete.
I could re-power with brand new petrols and drives or sell up and spend the additional money on an older twin diesel boat. Now in the price and size range I am looking at, the boats had the AD31L’s and a quick non scientific check shows that some of the parts are now obsolete. Such as the turbo or the charge air cooler.
So ... Brand new modern fuel efficient (comparatively!!) petrols or old risky diesels?
 
I think it will come to this, will the OP one day regret his choice of either diesel or petrol or is it more likely he will regret choosing outdrives?
 
Diesel for 2 reasons:

  1. Ease of refuelling and availability of diesel in marinas and harbours. Ferrying petrol in cans to vessel from filling stations a major PITA
  2. SAFETY - Having rescued a couple from a burning cruiser I am sure they would not have survived had the vessel been petrol.
 
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