Turbo issues (i think)

[bigmac1]

Hi all, newbie here, can you help please?
I have a 26 ft motorboat, ford sabre 212 hp with turbo, when i bought it it was going well but now it is very smokey, when i run under load at 2000 revs (6 knots) all is ok but if i go up to 2500revs then she starts to throw out black smoke (really bad), if i go up to 3000 revs she seems to clear herself, i can hear the turbo coming in at 300revs , i have had a full oil change + filters also new diesel filters, injectors have been checked and ok , i can turn the turbo with my finger when she is stopped (but i dont know how free it should be)?,
I dont know if it has a wastegate , if any one can tell me if it should have one please let me know, there is a slight play in and out on the impeller but i dont know what is acceptable, suggestions please, if i have replace or repair turbo where can i get this done??
Thanks in advance

 

[dpb]

Is the underwater hull clean?

 

[jrudge]

First question that sprang to mind !

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Black smoke suggests too much fuel, or not enough air. I’d have thought maybe wrongly that prop / hull fouling would affect the engine at all revs. That doesn’t seem to be the case, so some potential mechanical issue may be the cause. What we do not know is what has changed between purchase and now. If it was working properly then, but not now despite the works, would suggest perhaps that one element of the work that was done may be the cause. So, was the work done first? Or the problem appeared and the works done to try and fix it?

 

[jrudge]

To me the engine is over loaded. It smokes. Turbo eventually kicks on and this then improves the position as there is more power.

 

[Nito]

As posters above, running rich will likely be because it is not getting the expected air flow so the mixture is rich. Check air filter not blocked, no air leaks in the intake system. There shouldn’t really be any noticeable play in the turbo and certainly not up and down, if there is enough play that the turbine blades might touch the housing that could stall the turbo resulting in low boost and therefore less air. You can check for signs of that on the housing making sure there has been no contact. The turbo blades should turn with next to no resistance. Also check for leaks on the exhaust manifold, the exhaust gas needs to get to the turbo first in order to spin it.

Is the problem consistent and repeatable? Smoke aside, is there a corresponding performance drop?

Anything else that can cause the performance to drop such as a dirty hull or fouled prop could put the engine under more load just at the point where it needs to get over the hump which will have it sitting in that high load zone for longer.

I had an issue with revs hanging that was intermittent on one engine, I found it only happened later on the return leg of our journey to the local bay, it was a clogged after cooler on the sea water side, causing increased intake temps which reduced performance, at max load I couldn’t get past 1600rpm if I powered up the one engine such as banking hard, if I kept it nailed I’d get whisps of black smoke. If I helped it along with the other engine it cleared the hump and would behave normally. See how hot your after cooler is and check for any signs that it has been getting hot such as peeling paint.

Do you have a boost gauge? Temps all normal? Etc.

It could also be burning oil which would make it smoke but this would be a more blue/grey colour. Check the oil level, it would be a heavier/thicker smoke if oil. This could be a dirty breathing system, turbo seals, or engine problem (worn rings) etc.

Good luck. We had a boat local to us chuck out black smoke when we were following, he needed a new turbo, his performance was also massively affected.

 

[oldgit]

The amount of fouling this year on the East Coast has been impressive .
Many boats anti fouled in March and April have been lifted and jetwashed again due to prolific amounts of slime and small barnycules on hulls and props, most of these boats have been used to a greater or lesser extent.
Loss of speed and soot on transoms !
Boats using both hard and soft anti foul.
Check your bottom.

 

[bigmac1]

Is the underwater hull clean?

Yes hand it cleaned as i thought it could be that

 

[bigmac1]

As posters above, running rich will likely be because it is not getting the expected air flow so the mixture is rich. Check air filter not blocked, no air leaks in the intake system. There shouldn’t really be any noticeable play in the turbo and certainly not up and down, if there is enough play that the turbine blades might touch the housing that could stall the turbo resulting in low boost and therefore less air. You can check for signs of that on the housing making sure there has been no contact. The turbo blades should turn with next to no resistance. Also check for leaks on the exhaust manifold, the exhaust gas needs to get to the turbo first in order to spin it.

Is the problem consistent and repeatable? Smoke aside, is there a corresponding performance drop?

Anything else that can cause the performance to drop such as a dirty hull or fouled prop could put the engine under more load just at the point where it needs to get over the hump which will have it sitting in that high load zone for longer.

I had an issue with revs hanging that was intermittent on one engine, I found it only happened later on the return leg of our journey to the local bay, it was a clogged after cooler on the sea water side, causing increased intake temps which reduced performance, at max load I couldn’t get past 1600rpm if I powered up the one engine such as banking hard, if I kept it nailed I’d get whisps of black smoke. If I helped it along with the other engine it cleared the hump and would behave normally. See how hot your after cooler is and check for any signs that it has been getting hot such as peeling paint.

Do you have a boost gauge? Temps all normal? Etc.

It could also be burning oil which would make it smoke but this would be a more blue/grey colour. Check the oil level, it would be a heavier/thicker smoke if oil. This could be a dirty breathing system, turbo seals, or engine problem (worn rings) etc.

Good luck. We had a boat local to us chuck out black smoke when we were following, he needed a new turbo, his performance was also massively affected.

Hi, no boost gauge and te.ps all normal, i will be taken out the turbo for repair or refurbishment, when i do this i will also check the exhaust from turbo to back of boat to see if is partially blocked, as for the rest of your reply i cannot any leaks

 

[bigmac1]

By the way any ideas where i ca pick up a new / refurbished turbo? Or where to send mine for repair please

 

[DavidJ]

With the help of this forum I went through this a few years back. My symptoms were quite different from yours (engines KAD43’s) no smoke just a lack of power after the supercharger cut out speed.
The consensus then was to buy new because of some refurb horror stories.
Personally I would get a pressure gauge onto it and do some diagnostics first.

 

[bigmac1]

With the help of this forum I went through this a few years back. My symptoms were quite different from yours (engines KAD43’s) no smoke just a lack of power after the supercharger cut out speed.
The consensus then was to buy new because of some refurb horror stories.
Personally I would get a pressure gauge onto it and do some diagnostics first.

Hi done compression tests on cylinders, all good, valve clearance good injectors good

 

[Divemaster1]

Hi all, newbie here, can you help please?
I have a 26 ft motorboat, ford sabre 212 hp with turbo, when i bought it it was going well but now it is very smokey, when i run under load at 2000 revs (6 knots) all is ok but if i go up to 2500revs then she starts to throw out black smoke (really bad), if i go up to 3000 revs .....

Ford Sabre 212 at 3000 RPM ?? ... though they were restricted to 2400/2500 .. someone tweaked the fuel pump, or am I wrong with my thoughts ?? .. or are we not talking about the older in-line six cylinder engine ?

 

[bigmac1]

Ford Sabre 212 at 3000 RPM ?? ... though they were restricted to 2400/2500 .. someone tweaked the fuel pump, or am I wrong with my thoughts ?? .. or are we not talking about the older in-line six cylinder engine ?

Hi you could be correct, i have just had a new tachograph put in as older one didn't work , so it might not be set up right, but saying that the boat was quite ok running at 14 knots now its down to 10, yes this is a straight 6

 

[DavidJ]

Hi done compression tests on cylinders, all good, valve clearance good injectors good

I’m talking turbo pressure

 

[harvey38]

212hp on a 26ft mobo? It should fly along........

You say the turbo kicks in at 300rpm, I think that must be a typo. Over what period of time did the symptoms start, are you sure the prop isn't fouled?

 

[bigmac1]

Had boat taken out to clean her just after problem started , had bottom cleaned and prop and rudder cleaned, new anodes, also had prop and rudder covered with anti fouling grease, small improvement in speed but still black smoke .

 

[ChromeDome]

I’m talking turbo pressure

Agreed, you need to clarify the problem before throwing money at any refurb or replacement. And not too hard to do.

Also I'd make sure, meticulously, that all figures are right:

Is the tacho accurate? Check with an [inexpensive] rpm laser.
Temperature readings? Check head, block, heat exchanger, turbo, exhaust etc. with an [inexpensive] temp laser.
What is the exact engine make and model and version? Confirm the specifications for it (rpm at wot, torque diagram)?
Do measurements several times, in neutral and in gear.
Check fuel supply. And recheck.

Use your phone camera everywhere.

If nothing else, to eliminate suspicion and document the state.

 

[Momac]

By the way any ideas where i ca pick up a new / refurbished turbo? Or where to send mine for repair please

Midland Turbo

 

[bigmac1]

Midland Turbo

Thank you momac, this is just what i want