Tri Colour and Anchor light problems

[FulmarJeddo]

I initially had problems with my masthead light due to the deck plug getting pulled out by the jib sheets. I replaced the plug with a deck gland, but had to extend the cable to reach below deck. The light is wired using standard 2.5 mm 3 core flex which has badly oxidised. The cable still seems sound, but has gone black. I managed to solder 2 of the 3 wires and got the tri colour working but the 3rd wire has so far refused to tin. The cable exiting the mast is too short to cut back further to try and get to a cleaner section. I have diverted the power for the Anchor light to a socket in the heads so I can hang a lamp up and feed the cable in through an opening vent.

I would like to get the mast head Anchor light working though, but don't really want to attempt to replace the cable after the problems I had replacing the vhf cable. I think the only way to do it will be with the mast down, as I think the end caps will need to come off, and I currently have no other reason to take the mast down.

I have been thinking about wiring the two bulbs in parallel using the good pair of wires and inserting a diode before each bulb (in opposite directions) with a polarity reversing switch. I initially thought I may be able to do it with just led bulbs, but I see most have a cross over bridge built in so they are not polarity sensitive. The other problem is that the Aqua Signal light uses BAY15D bulbs with the off set pins, so whatever bulbs I use are going to need additional diodes.

Has anyone any experience of this or can see any likely issues?

 

[VicS]

I initially had problems with my masthead light due to the deck plug getting pulled out by the jib sheets. I replaced the plug with a deck gland, but had to extend the cable to reach below deck. The light is wired using standard 2.5 mm 3 core flex which has badly oxidised. The cable still seems sound, but has gone black. I managed to solder 2 of the 3 wires and got the tri colour working but the 3rd wire has so far refused to tin. The cable exiting the mast is too short to cut back further to try and get to a cleaner section. I have diverted the power for the Anchor light to a socket in the heads so I can hang a lamp up and feed the cable in through an opening vent.

I would like to get the mast head Anchor light working though, but don't really want to attempt to replace the cable after the problems I had replacing the vhf cable. I think the only way to do it will be with the mast down, as I think the end caps will need to come off, and I currently have no other reason to take the mast down.

I have been thinking about wiring the two bulbs in parallel using the good pair of wires and inserting a diode before each bulb (in opposite directions) with a polarity reversing switch. I initially thought I may be able to do it with just led bulbs, but I see most have a cross over bridge built in so they are not polarity sensitive. The other problem is that the Aqua Signal light uses BAY15D bulbs with the off set pins, so whatever bulbs I use are going to need additional diodes.

Has anyone any experience of this or can see any likely issues?

0.7 volt drop across silicon diodes, in addition to cable losses, would be undesirable perhaps. Use of Schottky diodes will reduce this though.

Others will say the mast head is the wrong place for an anchor light and that you should forget it in favour of one hung in the fore triangle closer to eye level.

Are you using a soldering flux , or just trying to make do with cored solder .......... I always use a non corrosive flux, cored solder or not!

 

[NormanS]

I wouldn't go to any trouble to fix a masthead anchor light. Yes, they can be seen all round, but by whom? If someone is nosing into the anchorage where you are, a light away up in the sky is just that. Far better to have your anchor light where it will be seen, and give some clue as to the position of the boat.
The type with a built-in switch to switch on at dusk, and off again at daylight are excellent, and if fitted with an LED lamp, use hardly any power.

 

[prv]

I wouldn't go to any trouble to fix a masthead anchor light. Yes, they can be seen all round, but by whom? If someone is nosing into the anchorage where you are, a light away up in the sky is just that. Far better to have your anchor light where it will be seen, and give some clue as to the position of the boat.

Agree, strongly.

If you insist upon it, Vic's point about volt drop is probably not relevant to LEDs, and fitting Edwardian-style coils of white-hot wire on a boat is a nonsense in 2017.

I have had success rejuvenating blackened copper on wiring which couldn't be changed (potted into a sensor) by dipping it for a couple of seconds into concentrated hydrochloric acid then rinsing with fresh water (to neutralise) then alcohol (to chase away the water). To my pleasant surprise you can buy the acid perfectly straightforwardly on eBay.

Pete

 

[JumbleDuck]

I wouldn't go to any trouble to fix a masthead anchor light. Yes, they can be seen all round, but by whom? If someone is nosing into the anchorage where you are, a light away up in the sky is just that. Far better to have your anchor light where it will be seen, and give some clue as to the position of the boat.

A masthead light on my Hunter 490 would be halfway up the forestay on my 26 footer. A masthead light on my 26 footer would be halfway up the forestay of a 36 footer. Anyone who doesn't bother scanning up in the air a bit when entering an anchorage at night is a fool and should be eaten by bears.

 

[FulmarJeddo]

Thanks for the comments.

I was looking at Schottky diodes on Maplin's site and thought they would be better with the lower voltage loss.

Each time I have tried to solder the wire it has only been with cored solder. I have been meaning to take some plumbing flux, but was a little concerned that it may have caused problems later on. I like the idea of concentrated hydrochloric acid then rinsing it off. I will look on ebay while its still legal to buy it.

I do use one of the hanging lights with the light sensor, but it doesn't seem to give a particularly good light. I should probably be looking at changing the bulb for a LED.

I really wanted to get the mast head light working as it is just a case of flicking a switch, where the hanging light takes a bit longer to set up. I quite often arrive in the dark, so it would be good to be able to kill the other lights and switch on the masthead light while I sort myself out.

What I have in mind is, getting the mast head working from the 2 good wires, and using the 3rd below decks to power my plugin light without having to run in another power feed.

Thanks
David

 

[A1Sailor]

The other benefit of a lamp hung in the foretriangle is that it provides illumination for the foredeck below. It can be a real pain replacing anything in the mast, but it is surely worth a go replacing the current cable but the mast needs to be down to DIY. The cable will probably run in an aluminium tube within the mast - it did in the Kemp mast on my Sadler 25.

 

[FulmarJeddo]

The other benefit of a lamp hung in the foretriangle is that it provides illumination for the foredeck below. It can be a real pain replacing anything in the mast, but it is surely worth a go replacing the current cable but the mast needs to be down to DIY. The cable will probably run in an aluminium tube within the mast - it did in the Kemp mast on my Sadler 25.

Yes my mast is also a Kemp with the cables down box tubes either side of the track. Having spent several days up and down the mast changing the vhf cable a few years ago. I know I can't change this cable with the mast up. Last time the cable came down the mast fairly easy but jammed at the bottom and the mouse line parted. I could see the cable just poking out the tube but couldn't get hold of it. Eventually got it with a wire coat hanger.

 

[LittleSister]

The other advantage of an all-round white at the masthead is that it serves as a combined steaming and stern light (if 12m or under LOA).

As Jumbleduck has said, how useful a mast head anchor light is depends in part on the height of the mast.

I often rig a 'low-level' anchor light (despite having quite small boats), but find it convenient to use the masthead anchor light when I first anchor, while I sort the change, snubbing line, and tying up and plugging in the low level light.

 

[lw395]

A proper crimp termination should work on wire that is oxidised to a surprising degree. If your crimp pressure is no enough to shear the oxide layers off the wire locally, it's not a proper crimp.
It might be worth a try if you have access to the proper tools.

 

[VicS]

Thanks for the comments.

I was looking at Schottky diodes on Maplin's site and thought they would be better with the lower voltage loss.

Each time I have tried to solder the wire it has only been with cored solder. I have been meaning to take some plumbing flux, but was a little concerned that it may have caused problems later on. I like the idea of concentrated hydrochloric acid then rinsing it off. I will look on ebay while its still legal to buy it.

I do use one of the hanging lights with the light sensor, but it doesn't seem to give a particularly good light. I should probably be looking at changing the bulb for a LED.

I really wanted to get the mast head light working as it is just a case of flicking a switch, where the hanging light takes a bit longer to set up. I quite often arrive in the dark, so it would be good to be able to kill the other lights and switch on the masthead light while I sort myself out.

What I have in mind is, getting the mast head working from the 2 good wires, and using the 3rd below decks to power my plugin light without having to run in another power feed.

Thanks
David

Plumbers fluxes are generally not suitable for electrical and electronic soldering. They may contain zinc chloride and/or ammonium chloride which will leave corrosive residues.
See Rapid Electronics for a selection of suitable fluxes. I use a rosin based paste The particular brand is NLA AFAIK

I do not like the idea of using hydrochloric acid one tiny bit. It will wick up the wire inside the insulation to where you won't be able to flush it out . Many years down the line you could well find that your wiring has corroded away some distance from your beautifully soldered connections. ............. sorry Pete

 

[peteK]

When I had a problem with oxidised wire I took a chock block and used just one of the terminals with out the plastic,inserted the wires so that there were two screws on each wire and finished it off with some heat shrink.

 

[LittleSister]

When faced with oxidised wires I needed to make a connection to have cleaned the worst of the oxide off with fine abrasive paper, spreading and rolling the filaments to get as much as practicable off, before twisting them back together again to make the connection. I can't say this is a good method, but it certainly worked OK.

 

[Plum]

When faced with oxidised wires I needed to make a connection to have cleaned the worst of the oxide off with fine abrasive paper, spreading and rolling the filaments to get as much as practicable off, before twisting them back together again to make the connection. I can't say this is a good method, but it certainly worked OK.

+1 I have successfully used that method too.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[prv]

I do not like the idea of using hydrochloric acid one tiny bit. It will wick up the wire inside the insulation to where you won't be able to flush it out . Many years down the line you could well find that your wiring has corroded away some distance from your beautifully soldered connections. ............. sorry Pete

No offence taken - it worked for me but I don't claim any specific chemical expertise. Touch wood, so far my fuel sensor is still working fine five years on...

Does HCl corrode copper?

I did make sure not to dip it as far as the insulation, as I suspected that wouldn't react well to the acid, so the space between wire and insulation wasn't available to slurp it up. But I suppose it could have wicked up between the strands.

Pete

 

[William_H]

Plus 1 for forget the anchor light. It would not be fun fitting diodes to a mast head light even if you remove it and refit it. For anchor light of course LED is the way to go. olewill

 

[JumbleDuck]

I often rig a 'low-level' anchor light (despite having quite small boats), but find it convenient to use the masthead anchor light when I first anchor, while I sort the change, snubbing line, and tying up and plugging in the low level light.

I normally use a hurricane lamp from a spreader, but the masthead LED is useful, as you say, for a quick fix.

When faced with oxidised wires I needed to make a connection to have cleaned the worst of the oxide off with fine abrasive paper, spreading and rolling the filaments to get as much as practicable off, before twisting them back together again to make the connection. I can't say this is a good method, but it certainly worked OK.

+1

 

[FulmarJeddo]

Plus 1 for forget the anchor light. It would not be fun fitting diodes to a mast head light even if you remove it and refit it. For anchor light of course LED is the way to go. olewill

I do really want to get it working for the reasons already mentioned ie able to switch it on straight away when reaching an anchorage and a useful emergency light in the event of failure of other nav lights. I had the bi colour bulb blow on a rough channel crossing once. I had a spare bulb, but it was far too rough to go forward to change the bulb.
I think first step will be to have another go at soldering the wire with some additional flux. If that doesn't work I will go for the diodes.
I don't think fitting the diodes will be that difficult. The light is an Aquasignal quick release fitting. The 3 wires terminate on a screw block on the base. I can make up the diodes in advance to crimp or screw connect to the good wire and ready to go into the connector block to each bulb.
I have lost count of the number of times I have been up the mast in the past few years, I use climbing ascenders on the main halyard. The biggest problem is getting enough height to see what I'm doing with the wire connector block. Being bilge keel I'm happier to go up the mast when the boat is ashore, it's much steadier than rolling around on the water and it comes out next week.

 

[MonniotC]

When faced with oxidised wires I needed to make a connection to have cleaned the worst of the oxide off with fine abrasive paper, spreading and rolling the filaments to get as much as practicable off, before twisting them back together again to make the connection. I can't say this is a good method, but it certainly worked OK.

+1
I have also done this. If you spread the filaments out on a hard surface, you can scrape the corrosion off with a knife and sandpaper.

 

[JumbleDuck]

+1
I have also done this. If you spread the filaments out on a hard surface, you can scrape the corrosion off with a knife and sandpaper.

Exactly how I do it.