Trailer Troubles

[Lakesailor]

OK. Some helpful answers there.
To proceed with the existing trailer add some rollers, just like the extra ones on the axles, to the spreader bars. It may not answer the design questions, but will stop further damage.
Have you thought about sending the pics to Beneteau? Not the UK dealers, but the manufacturer, with a request for their opinion. If the rollers are not supporting the boat properly they should be concerned. If you can't get through to them (and their web site seems to discourage it) how about a different UK dealer to the one you're using?

I think you are a bit stuffed in reality. It's a long while since you got the outfit and although they have accepted there has been a problem the trailer length issue seems a new concept.

It may be that to avoid litigation costs and bother you would not lose too much by getting a new trailer made by any of the other trailer manufacturers who would be keen to prove their trailers better for the job than SBS.
Then flog the existing trailer to offset the outlay.
You'll pay a bit of money, but get a trailer you're confident in.

 

[landlockedpirate]

I think the trailer is far too short, but I am not convinced that this is the problem re recovery.

I have a SBS trailer but the 2000kg model. I would guess that your boat has a vastly different centre of gravity to a traditional sportsboat. I would guess that they have moved the boat so far forward so that the nose weight is correct.

My boat sits right over the rear rollers.

The front snubbing post is right at the back of the draw bar, where as yours is right at the front. I cant help but think there must be massive stress on the rear part of the hull when you are bouncing along on the motorway.

My trailer was set up by SBS (Along with a Fletcher agent) The suggestion about sending some photos to SBS seems a good one to me. I would not tell them a dealer supplied it as a package, just say you bought the boat as it is, and what do they think of the set up.

On a seperate thing, where is the slip you were usuing, it looks ideal for my first exploration of North Wales.

 

[Major Catastrophe]

Thanks for the pics landlockedpirate and it confirms what we discovered today, that the trailer is too short, for a start.

LakeSailor is probably right in that it is now too far down the road to expect the dealers to put it right, but once I have collected more facts, they will be hearing of my (further) disapproval, just for the sake of it.

I will be contacting SBS, but do not hold much hope of getting Beneteau to respond, as that is what the dealer network is for.

I think I need a new trailer.

As to the slip landlockedpirate, it is not a public slip and for use by berthholders at the marina and various locals, as the road to the slip winds through a large housing estate. When I first started looking for a slip, I asked if I could use it and was told I could not. I then bought two dockside houses off the marina owner and paid for a berth - and now he lets me use it!

I have PM'd you with the details. in case you want to have a go, but it helps if you buy a house or two.

 

[landlockedpirate]

I guess its Ronnies then /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Good luck, lifes too short, get a new trailer and enjoy the summer. (the old one will probably sell for more than you paid for it on Ebay anyway /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif )

 

[ExcaliburII]

Steady on there, Lakesailor /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Whilst adding extra rollers to the centre of the spreaders would obviously limit any damage to the keel during loading, this may mean that all the weight of the boat is then taken via the keel in the centre of the spreader bars, which they are not designed for. Looking at the Major's first pic, the spreaders are designed to take the weight near their ends, close to the support points on the trailer chassis and not in the middle. The bit in the middle is really only there to keep the sides in step and stop them flapping about. All manner of problems might arise from applying such a big bending load in the centre - the ends of the spreaders will try to move inward and may fail the side mountings, especially if they are pivots rather than solid fixtures. Maybe OK if, once the boat is fully on the trailer, the centre rollers are not actually in contact with the keel, but bouncing along the road with the weight on them would not be on. And if you could lift the side rollers up a bit to give more support with the boat higher up on the trailer, you could do that anyway to keep the keel off the spreaders and not bother with the centre roller.

I wouldn't contemplate fitting centre rollers to the spreaders without a proper design analysis by a qualified engineer. Quite apart from the hassle of getting everything repaired if it all ends up in a pile of bits on the hard shoulder, I bet the insurers would see it as an unauthorised mod and an ideal opportunity to opt out. Even more tricky if someone else's property or health & wellbeing gets damaged in the melee.

As has already been stated, I feel that the Major's best plan would be to get a more appropriate trailer, then sell this one to someone with a boat that fits it!

 

[Lakesailor]

Missed the point entirely.
The rollers protecting the spreaders will be far below the keel.
If you saw the original thread you would have seen the diagram I posted to show their positioning. They lift the keel but an inch to just clear (in that case) the axles. There is no load-bearing aspect at all as the boat is still supported by the water at that point. They merely alter the boat's trim to glide it over the obstruction..
My first idea was exactly what the trailer people, after much hand-wringing and anguish, did.
Lifting the side rollers does little or nothing to alter the angle of attack the boat approaches the trailer at, plus you end up, as a qualified engineer (yourself presumably) would tell you, with the CoG too high as you would have altered the loading height to overcome an unrelated problem.

The answer, which if you look at the trailer and boat is obviously that that particular slip is too steep for the combination. The boat approaches the trailer at the wrong angle. The way to safely retrieve would be to immerse the trailer so that the boat floated above all keel rollers and came up to the winch post stop. Then secure the winch line and retrieve the trailer, letting the boat settle on the rollers as it comes out. To achieve this removable docking arms need fiiting at the rear of the trailer to align the boat as it settles.
It does make the rollers rather redundant, bunk pads would work as well, but other slips may be a more suitable angle for winching.

 

[me2]

yes 100% right its the slip not the trailer take the boat and trailer to sbs they will put rollers on and replace the draw bar you dont need to change the trailer

 

[DAKA]

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It would be interesting to know what the weight is on the tow hitch ?

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It's not that much as the car hardly dips at all when I hitch up and it rides very well with no weight distribution problems. I have no complaints there at all.



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I agree with T25 that the trailer is either too short or the boat needs to be moved forward.

If you check the hitch weight I expect it to confirm there in inadequate nose weight, which is what you imply.

the weight of your boat is aft of centre but the trailer is not supporting that area.

Even with twin wheels I expect you could get in a dangerous wag downhill.

Can the front support be moved forward to let the boat forward
It looks as if the adjustment is already at the extreme in which case the trailer is too small.

 

[Major Catastrophe]

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take the boat and trailer to sbs they will put rollers on and replace the draw bar you dont need to change the trailer

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Please explain. Put rollers where and change the draw bar for what?

 

[Major Catastrophe]

DAKA, I am of the opinion that the weight distribution at the moment is spot on. I drive a fairly hefty 4x4 and I wouldn't expect it to move that much. I can assure you that there is weight on the hitch, but it is proportionate. For example, you can't just lift the front by hand!

As to tail wag. I have already said that it tows extremely well and anyone who travels the North Wales A55 will know that there is a very long and steep hill (All very fast dual carriageway) called Rhuallt Hill, which I did at a nice 50 mph last week braking all the way. There was not a single twitch from the trailer.

So, the weight distribution set up of the trailer is perfect at the moment and will only change if I start moving the rollers/ winch around.

 

[me2]

pm me a phone number i will call you

 

[Bergman]

Yes

Absolutely right

Thats precisely what I had to do with my trailer sailer.

On some slips I had to uncouple the trailer and drop it back on a length of rope to keep the car aground.

Make the water do the work.

 

[BarryH]

Hmmm, never have liked multi roller swing beams trailers myself, not enough support in my opinion.

As others have said trailer looks too small in length for the boat. If its ok capacity wise and you've no comeback from the dealer then I'd look at getting a new drawbar made up. Extra length required is the overhang of the boat and move the axles forward on the chassis to keep the balance/nose weight correct.

Not hard to make a T piece drawbar. I'd suspect that the trailer mauf uses stock steels. A quiet word with a galvanizing co will get it plated for a few quid.

The extra lenght will allow the trailer to go deeper under the boat when recovering which may solve the problem of the keel hitting the cross members. Stick rollers on all of them anyway you can never have enough support on the keel

 

[Major Catastrophe]

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I'd look at getting a new drawbar made up. Extra length required is the overhang of the boat and move the axles forward on the chassis to keep the balance/nose weight correct.

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I've just had a telephone chat with sb1, who has been making and altering marine trailers since the beginning of time.

Conclusion is that I need a longer drawbar so that I can move the winch forward and therefore the boat forward. I also need some protection from the two spreaders, but not to let the keel rest on them whilst in transit. Then the entire rig needs to be rebalanced by having wheels moved forward etc, etc.

With that in mind, I am going to contact SBS, who I am told by everbody, is an excellent company to ask them to do the work.

There is no point in dealing with the boat dealer any longer as they clearly have not got much of a clue.

sb1 also thinks that the trailer may be a bit nose heavy, but that will be sorted after the re-configuration. He also pointed out that the unsupported rear of the boat could eventually result in breaking its back, what with the weight of the engines on the transom. Luckily, due to my lack of confindence in the whole set up, I have only trailed the boat seven times, so I have caught it in time.

Thanks to everyone for their input, and I am starting to feel that after 2 1/2 years, I can see some light at the end of the tunnel and the moral of the story is, don't expect a boat dealer to know anything about trailers.

I have just realised that I didn't actually link in my first post to the picture of Puffin Island I took yesterday.

So, to all you armchair sailors, this ia waht you are missing.

 

[old_salt]

Hi Chris.
Nice pic are you sure you didn't take it off the top of Penmaenmawr. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I hope you solve you trailer probs.
I have only one small contribution looking at your first pic the front rollers look to be to high out of the water and a steep ramp with your cars back wheels almost in the water.
I don't know but would it help if you could un hitch the trailer and extend the distance to get the trailer deeper in the water. May be on a wire strop to try it then if it works make up an extension bar. I am thinking if the rollers where deeper then the boat would be just afloat above them and when in position draw the trailer out of the water.
Cheers David.

 

[ExcaliburII]

Yes, I agree if your centre rollers on the spreaders just lift the keel whilst loading and are not in contact once the boat is in position, that would probably be OK. Sorry, I didn't see your diagram. I also agree it's not a good idea to raise the CG and hence decrease stability when towing.

However, I do find it strange that an experienced trailer manufacturer produces a trailer which wont work properly at any (reasonable) slipway angle. To say "the slipway is too steep" is looking at the problem from the wrong end of the telescope IMHO. If that were the case, the trailer would need to be marketed with a caveat something like: "only suitable for use on slipways up to x% gradient". Clearly, not feasible. In fact, I think this trailer is designed to carry boats with a much shallower V hull, but unfortunately this vital detail was not made clear to whoever specified it as suitable for the Major's boat.

 

[Neddie_Seagoon]

Talking from a standpoint of total ignorance...

I go with the suggestions that see you lowering the trailer further down the slip so that you float off and float on. Much less stress on the boat. Perhaps a towball mounted winch is the way to go, to allow you to winch the trailer down and back up the slip?

 

[Major Catastrophe]

The first picture was of the launch, which has never caused any damage and was taken just after the driver reversed the car and braked to give the launch some momentum. We tried recoveries at every depth, but the result was always the same.

When I specified the boat, the criterion was that I must be able to launch and recover single handed.

"Yes, sir! No problem, we have the ideal trailer boat combination for you."

There should be no reason to have to rope the trailer in, on what is an average slip. The trailer is an Easy Loader, not an Easy Floater Onner!! Your solution would mean having to fit guide bars, in case of it being windy.

I am surprised everyone says it is a steep slip. Take a look at the one at Bradwell Marina in Essex, which is where I first launched it. Now, that is steep.

Anyway, it is all academic now, as I am contacting SBS to help me 'rebuild' the trailer, as they are the experts.

Honest, the photo was taken from the bus stop just after the roundabout .

 

[Major Catastrophe]

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However, I do find it strange that an experienced trailer manufacturer produces a trailer which wont work properly at any (reasonable) slipway angle.

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There is nothing wrong with the trailer as manufactured and supplied to the boat dealer. It is a cracking trailer, well built and as strong as anything.

The problem is that the boat dealer simply plonked the boat on it and said, "There you go, £22,000 please. Now get orf ma laaand."

 

[old_salt]

One of my favourite spots spent many hrs on that stretch of water in most things from the St Tudno to rowing boats as a kid..
I see your point of The trailer is an Easy Loader, not an Easy Floater Onner