Trailer sailer: what's a sensible compromise?

[William_H]

Trailer sailers

I have had my TS for 30 years. Yes I keep it on a swing mooring but bring it home each winter. When I first had it in Melbourne I towed it about 20kms to the water for day sails. I would say the trailer and the driving were more stressful than anything else. I have not of recent years done the exploring bit much. Indeed just one overnight trip about 2 years ago. That is just me being lazy(old).

So rigging the mast and sails is not a problem. You will I believe with any boat get systems in place to make it quick. I have mostly used RWD bigger family cars (6cyl) with auto transmission. Never yet been concerned about traction. (far more common here in Oz than UK and definitely thirsty.) My current car a RWD SUV has a max trailer load of 2600kg. (Ford Territory)

My boat is 21ft and under 1 tonne weight (plus trailer) indeed the new examples of mine Castle 650 are 760kg. This makes it fast but tender and of course easy to tow. Launching is no problem with a steep ramp available and lots of rollers on trailer. Water level is barely up to the axle. The boat has flush bottom when vertical lifting keel is up.

I live near the water and swing mooring so leave it on the mooring. I have however timed myself at 1hr from leaving home row out to the boat sail to the yacht club while SWMBO drives the car and trailer to the ramp. De rig boat on trailer and home again.

Now I don't expect OP will have steep ramp (slipway) or a shallow draft boat. But perhaps yes.
In any case it is all doable. I reckon I could cope with a larger boat. Indeed at our club one friend has a Magnum 850 that he has towed long distances. That is 27ft and very luxurious. He uses a Tojo Land Cruiser.
I have helped a few friends retrieve and launch fin keel boats of similar size. A bit more fiddling to
lower the boat and trailer into deep water and getting it onto the trailer in the right place but all doable.
Certainly twin keel should be easier. Mind you it helps to be willing to get into the water with a mask and snorkel to see what is going on.
To aid mast rigging. Hank on jibs are much more convenient than coping with a rolled up jib on forestay.
You need 2 poles to make an A frame to raise the mast. Of course you need a tabernacle with hinge of some sort. You need a mast crutch at the transom. I found a high field lever in the forestay is great for tensioning the rig. But mostly practice makes it smoother and easier.
The trailer needs maintenance however a removable light board solves light problem. Brakes need a lot of maintenance as do bearings but you do it at home at your convenience. good luck olewill

 

[Yantlet]

Interesting , but I feel talk of 22ft boats and bigger is probably pushing the envelope a little far from the gist I pick up from the original posts requirements. Just what do you people think of as a trailer sailer? I guess taking it literally anything you can fit on a trailer is a trailer sailer. The reality is as a solo sailor you will be restricted by the weight of the gear, mast rigging etc, not to mention the handling on and of the trailer. Just wait until you try raising/lowering a mast with a stiff breeze blowing or trying to align it on the trailer with breaking waves and a 20 kt cross wind - Been there done that !
Incidentally where is your intended cruising area?

 

[Seajet]

I agree with those who say 'aim for something around 17' for a trailer sailer'.

I have a lift keel Anderson 22, and am sometimes asked - always by novices - if they'd make a trailer sailer; my answer is no, too heavy and too much to set up.

Might be Ok to trail to some otherwise unreachable far off spot for a summer cruise, or to trail home for the winter - IF one can maintain the keel plate, this applies to all lift keelers -.

Even trailing a dinghy every weekend soon becomes a right pain, remember good slipways are scarce, everyone else will have the same idea, where do you park the car & trailer safely, etc ; much better off with a half tide swinging mooring, leaving the boat set up ready to go IMHO.

 

[maxi77]

So you have a Maximum Towing Weight of 2000Kg.

Trailers are usually 250/350Kg depending on construction. You would probably be within the weight limit, even with outboard, sails, gear etc.
Does that car have a low ratio box (or is it automatic)? Otherwise you'll need to be wary of giving loads of revs and clutch on slipways.

If you are looking at a boat that's out of the water, on it's trailer, perhaps a visit to the nearest weighbridge?

Most hulls gain weight with age, and then there is the weight of at least some of the kit. Also if you are towing any distance it is suggested that 90% of the tow cars max weight is better, so you may be close to the limit.

 

[Highndry]

Can't speak for Reptile but my plan isn't to 'trailer sail' on a trip by trip basis. I'm planning on leaving the boat at Rutland Water for this year, bring it the short journey home for the Winter and then, probably, move it down to the East Coast (probably the Orwell) next. I just like the idea of being able to do the moving myself and a swing keel seems to tick lots of the boxes.
The Seal 22 seems to fit the bill but are there any others I ought to be considering too?

 

[ProDave]

Can't speak for Reptile but my plan isn't to 'trailer sail' on a trip by trip basis. I'm planning on leaving the boat at Rutland Water for this year, bring it the short journey home for the Winter and then, probably, move it down to the East Coast (probably the Orwell) next. I just like the idea of being able to do the moving myself and a swing keel seems to tick lots of the boxes.
The Seal 22 seems to fit the bill but are there any others I ought to be considering too?

I think that's a wise compromise.

I think Seajet hit the nail on the head. Far more important than setting up the boat, is how good is the slipway.

When we first bought our boat, as a bit of an impulse purchase without much thought to how and when to use her, we initially thought about trailer sailing her. That was until I did a tour of the area looking at all the different slipways available. Most, if not all, were just a concrete ramp leading you down into the sea. No jetty or pontoon alongside, and in some cases not even a harbour nearby. The closest one to me (just 4 miles) is very shallow and leads you down into the sea with nothing around. If you launch there, what next? Your ONLY choice is anchor the boat, and row back to the slipway to recover and park the trailer, then row back out for some sailing.

It's not too bad where I launch from now, but still no pontoon or anything alongside the slipway. you have to launch the boat and take it into the harbour, then go and recover the trailer.

Of course if you have a slipway that has a pontoon alongside, is just the right gradient, and has ample easy parking for car and trailer very close by, and not too busy on a summer weekend, then you are very lucky, and trailer sailing for the day may work for you.

It was while doing my tour of the slipways and harbours that I found out how little it costs to keep a boat afloat up here, so getting a harbour berth for the summer compared to trailer sailing was a no brainer.

 

[Seajet]

Can't speak for Reptile but my plan isn't to 'trailer sail' on a trip by trip basis. I'm planning on leaving the boat at Rutland Water for this year, bring it the short journey home for the Winter and then, probably, move it down to the East Coast (probably the Orwell) next. I just like the idea of being able to do the moving myself and a swing keel seems to tick lots of the boxes.
The Seal 22 seems to fit the bill but are there any others I ought to be considering too?

Highndry,

bearing in mind what I said earlier and ProDave's comments, if considering a Seal 22 ( a touch lighter but lot less boat ) and you stick to the use you mentioned, one of these may well suit;

www.anderson22class.co.uk

However they are in short supply at the moment, unless an early model or a trip to Ireland appeals; there's a waiting list for good later examples in Southern UK waters.

 

[aquaplane]

Quite a few of the Trail Sail Association have boats that are big for trail sailing but they tend to keep them on a mooring for the season and only trail them for a longer cruise(es) somewhere else. It's a good compromise if you can afford to have a mooring as opposed to keeping the boat at home all the time.
If you have to keep a boat at home I would say a micro cup type boat, or say 17 to 19 feet is not too much trouble for long weekends and longer cruises. With a large family car or a people carrier you can stick to a reasonably economical vehicle too.
If you can afford a 4X4 you could do a similar sort of sailing with a 20 to 22 foot boat but it'll take a little longer to launch and recover so you may be reluctant to do the shorter trips. You are also using more fuel all year, even more when towing. You may be better on a mooring then you can daysail too.
If you can afford a 4X4 and a mooring you could have a trailable boat about 24' or a bit bigger if it's a lightweight. It'll be a bit more of an opperation to launch and recover than the 20'-22' boat but it's only to get the beast home for winter or go somewhere else for a couple of weeks so it's worth the agro. Bilge keels aren't as good as a lifting/swing keel but shouldn't be ruled out.
I have had no problems finding a launch site with a pontoon or jetty alongside and parking for the car/trailer but it seems to be a major showstopping consideration on the South Coast. I suspect that if you want to do it there are places to launch, I know people who do.

Edit, The Seal 22 is a good trail sailer, I had a sit in one to chat with a friend on one of our Clyde cruises. He trails his behind a Subaru (Legacy I think) and launches and recovers it singlehanded so it's not impossible for that sized boat if you have it set up right.

 

[Avocet]

Something we found (when we had an Evolution 22) is that the size of the boat and the (relative) complexity of a 6-shroud rig, compared to a 4-shroud, plus the physically bigger mast etc, all lead to us keeping it in a marina for the summer and on the trailer for the winter. That's when we started cursing the lift-keel design! As soon as you leave them in the water for any length of time, you have to consider antifouling (or at least, regular scrubbing) and that's quite hard to do on a relatively flat-bottomed boat with a lift keel! We also ended up with a fair number of osmotic blisters. I don't know whether trailer-sailers are (or were) laid up any differently to larger boats that are expected to stay afloart for longer, but it did seem to "catch" osmosis pretty quickly!

 

[Seajet]

Avocet,

any boat left on a mooring will require antifouling, a bit hard on lift keelers to blame them for that !

There's an E-Boat ashore - just plonked on the ground - near my boat at the moment and she does look very difficult to paint underneath; I and most A22 owners keep our boats on home made high trestles, this allows maintenance of the keel plate and much easier painting.

Likewise catching osmosis, I'm afraid that's largely down to build quality and how the boat has been left; keeping her afloat 12 months a year and / or in fresh water is thought to be worst case.

As for different lay-ups for lift keelers, they should be heavier build around the bottom, but Mr Everitts' designs do tend to be on the light side...

 

[Reptile Smile]

Can't speak for Reptile but my plan isn't to 'trailer sail' on a trip by trip basis. I'm planning on leaving the boat at Rutland Water for this year, bring it the short journey home for the Winter and then, probably, move it down to the East Coast (probably the Orwell) next. I just like the idea of being able to do the moving myself and a swing keel seems to tick lots of the boxes.
The Seal 22 seems to fit the bill but are there any others I ought to be considering too?

Yeah, in the event, I think that's where I'm at too. I'm still with my 4x4 plan, so there isn't a problem with pulling power, and I hope I'm on the way to sorting out a mooring with a slipway that will give me the best of both worlds.

It may now, I think, be marginally more appropriate for me to be thinking about a 20' bilge keeler that I can move every now and then when required, rather than a smaller lift keeler that is less faff to tow and launch on regular basis, but it's great to have had the options and to be able to think about it in a more considered way. Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and input.

 

[Seajet]

Why a twin keeler, especially what will probably be an early design generation example with relatively poor performance ?

Lift keelers settle on mud happily - no boat of whatever keel format will stand being bounced on hard sand for long - and you should get much better performance...

 

[ProDave]

Re - anti fouling a lift keeler.

That's what the trailer is for. You can paint it all while on the trailer, all bar the tiny bit covered by the 6 rollers that the keel sits on. The other side rollers can be moved out of the way (once you prop the boat so it won't fall over) I've never tried it, but it might even be possible to push the boat back on the trailer a bit to expose the covered bits.

And as we have talked about before, get the right trailer, or modify the one you have, to allow the keel to be lowered..

As my boat lives on a drying mooring, it spends most of it's time with the keel up, so only the bottom bit of the swing keel gets barnicles on it, so it doesn't need to be lowered very much to anti foul that bit.

 

[Seajet]

As my boat lives on a drying mooring, it spends most of it's time with the keel up, so only the bottom bit of the swing keel gets barnicles on it, so it doesn't need to be lowered very much to anti foul that bit.

Hmmm,

that doesn't take actual maintenance of the keel plate into account though; even galvanising scrapes off in time, and I found the hard way that some places suffer 'accelerated steel corrosion'.

I agree it's possible to modify trailers to get round this, the best bet would be a custom trailer with stub axles ( normally the axles run straight under the keel ) with the tray the keel sits on made removable, and large hull supports to take the weight.

A much easier & cheaper alternative is a club with a hoist, and home made trestles.

Modified standard trailer;

Home made trestles - I give out the plans to owners association members -

 

[ProDave]

As my boat lives on a drying mooring, it spends most of it's time with the keel up, so only the bottom bit of the swing keel gets barnicles on it, so it doesn't need to be lowered very much to anti foul that bit.

Hmmm,

that doesn't take actual maintenance of the keel plate into account though; even galvanising scrapes off in time, and I found the hard way that some places suffer 'accelerated steel corrosion'.

I may not have mentioned, but my keel is encapsulated in GRP. I believe it's lead inside. So it's not going to rust.

But fully agree the ideal situation is to be able to fully lower the keel to inspect all of it, and that's what I hope to achieve after the next set of trailer modifications.

 

[Seajet]

ProDave,

I hope it is lead, though that's unusual as it's expensive & not too stiff.

My mooring is in an area of 'accelerated steel corrosion' - I only found out when asking around, as I've kept my boat on high trestles and treated it with possibly more TLC than any other keel in the UK, but it still corroded after say 25 years.

It turned out there is a known problem in the Chichester - Portsmouth area, and Porstsmouth Uni' Marine Metallurgy Dept were keen to have a look.

They were disappointed though, as their pet theory of that time was microbes which excrete stuff which erodes steel, happening to the Titanic right now at 12,000' down, but not to my keel...

Personally I suspect the mains power cables nearby, especially as fitting an anode to the new keel seems to have done the trick ( we are lucky with Andersons in having new keels etc available off the shelf ! ).

There are no internal electrics near the keel structure of my boat; the theory becomes hazy at this point, all I can say is the anode does erode a bit, and the keel doesn't !

When I saw the 1st keel corroding I tried every treatment going ( I used to work in a chandlery so knew what was available ) and one winter coated it with 709 epoxy; I now consider that was a mistake, as the slightest chip or crack in the epoxy would let water in and trap it against the ( originally hot dip galvanised ) 3/4" steel keel plate.

I'd suggest next chance you get you drill a test hole in your keel, wishing you a genuine good luck.

 

[Avocet]

Avocet,

any boat left on a mooring will require antifouling, a bit hard on lift keelers to blame them for that !

There's an E-Boat ashore - just plonked on the ground - near my boat at the moment and she does look very difficult to paint underneath; I and most A22 owners keep our boats on home made high trestles, this allows maintenance of the keel plate and much easier painting.

Likewise catching osmosis, I'm afraid that's largely down to build quality and how the boat has been left; keeping her afloat 12 months a year and / or in fresh water is thought to be worst case.

As for different lay-ups for lift keelers, they should be heavier build around the bottom, but Mr Everitts' designs do tend to be on the light side...

I appreciate that, but my point was that one of the advantages of a trailer sailer is not having it in the water unless you're using it. (We never antifouled our Leisure 17). Once you take the decision to leave it on a mooring / pontoon, you loose one of the advantages of having a trailer sailer.

The Evolution's trailer wasn't any help when it came to antifouling - as it just sat in a partial mould of its own bottom. Wonderfully supported, but pretty near impossible to antifoul. I did put it on trestles, but of course, that means a lift of some sort, and once again, you loose another advantage of a trailer sailer (no craneage fees).

The point on osmosis was just wondering whether builders of trailer sailers didn't place quite so much importance on osmosis protection because they banked on the boats not being in the water for long stretches at a time, but I'd be quite happy to believe that wasn't the case on all of them.

 

[Reptile Smile]

Why a twin keeler, especially what will probably be an early design generation example with relatively poor performance

Why = loss of cabin space, and worries about wear and tear on the mechanism, for my money. But still need to investigate more about the nature of the slipway and therefore required depth of water at the potential mooring site...

 

[aquaplane]

Why = loss of cabin space, and worries about wear and tear on the mechanism, for my money. But still need to investigate more about the nature of the slipway and therefore required depth of water at the potential mooring site...

Good point about intrusion in the cabin by lifting keel gear, and maintenance. Bilge keels generally mean needing more depth to launch and difficulty to recover if you aren't set up right, but if it's only oncea year is it such an issue?

Where are you looking for a slipway? Where you launch doesn't have to be where your mooring may be, you could launch somewhere easy and get a partner or mate to take the car/trailer to the mooring site. My mooring is 6 miles from the nearest slipway but for a once a year event 100 miles wouldn't be out of the question if there was a bus between.

 

[Lakesailor]

I've never tried it, but it might even be possible to push the boat back on the trailer a bit to expose the covered bits.

It's easy.

Method one for the brave. Slacken off the winch cable by about 8" and spray the keel stub with water. Reverse trailer quickly and stop sharply. Boat moves back until cable stops it.

Method two for the careful. Put lines around bilge or stub keels back to a solid fixing (Bollard or similar) drive carefully forwards and drag trailer from under boat. (better if you have low ratio box). Still use winch cable to limit movement.