Towing

[arthor]

Greetings all,
I reckon I must be a bit thick as I can't seem to get my head round the towings regs.
Putting aside the cars above 3500kg GW for now and assuming I have one less than that. I get that the trailer max is 7 metres long (not including the link bar) and 2.55 metres wide . Am I right in assuming that you can have an overhang of up to 3 metres? Does this then mean then that in theory, you can tow a boat of up to 10 metres?
As far as weight goes, I understand that it is down to the limit imposed by the manufacturer of the car (and trailer).
I intend building a boat which will be ply epoxy and therefore much lighter than a fibreglass one. I want it big enough to be comfortable on but small enough to trailer.

Width 8'5". I can't see a problem here
Length 26-28' I am thinking that if 7meters is the best part of 22' then even if I built her to 28', I would only need it to overhang by 1.8 metres. Can't really see a problem here either.
Weight - estimated 1850kgs. I think that is without engines but two Toh 90s take it up to around 2250Kgs. I have seen a 6.7m roller trailer that has a gross max of 3500 and a payload max of 2800.

I just cannot see why I cannot tow that with something like a LWB Landrover/Discovery or one of the bigger Troopers/Patrols etc. Am I missing something here?

I currently have a 27' Selcruiser that I think weighs in the 5-6 ton bracket but have seen pictures of it being towed by a member of this forum. This makes me feel that a similiar sized but lighter boat can also be towed.

regards

arthor

 

[neale]

UK towing laws are rather complex and open to misunderstanding by all concerned, including the police.

You can read about the regulations HERE but I think you may be all right with your proposal, as long as the total length of the rig doesn't exceed 18 metres.

 

[PaulGooch]

There are but a handful of vehicles that can legally tow 3500kg, the Disco you mentioned is one of the few.

 

[gjgm]

I think..think only.. the length of the trailer excludes the A frame. Now, on a caravan,thats just the bit at the front where the camping gaz and spare wheel goes, so it sort of makes sense.
On a boat trailer, its about a third of the trailer - ie, where the trailer frame starts to move towards the towbar- because of the shape of a boat, anyway. So, it might be that you can have a very long boat! You can tow a glider on a trailer, and thats damn long,surely.
Years ago, I did try asking the road division of a police force, and they basically said.. boat trailers..oh gawd, we cant undertsand the laws either
You could call SBS trailers...given they make vast numbers of boat trailers, they can probably give you the inside story.

 

[EugeneR]

Towing 4,000kg

I was told that a particular old model of Landrover or Range Rover can legally tow 4,000kg with that fact being indicated as an exception on the registration document.

Unfortunately, the guy no longer works for me so I cannot confirm the exact model etc.

 

[gunman]

In the UK, is it not the case that the weight of a trailer cannot exceed the weight of the towing vechile?

 

[Coaster]

I was told that a particular old model of Landrover or Range Rover can legally tow 4,000kg with that fact being indicated as an exception on the registration document.

I think you'll find that the legal maximum total weight of a trailer plus load, with overrun brakes, is 3500 kg on the public roads in the UK. To legally tow a heavier trailer, with a Land Rover or any other vehicle, requires the trailer brakes to be directly actuated in conjunction with the vehicle brakes, e.g. by means of a hydraulic hose connection.

 

[Coaster]

In the UK, is it not the case that the weight of a trailer cannot exceed the weight of the towing vechile?

No it's not. The law is complex and vague but the police seem to accept that the vehicle manufacturer's figures represent the proper limits. Exceeding the manufacturer's towing weight figure would possibly incur a prosecution for dangerous driving, or some other charge.

I have a Subaru Outback. The vehicle weighs about 1.5 tons. The stated maximum trailer weight is 2000kg. We regularly towed a trailer with a 20' cruising motor boat. The all up weight was nearly 2 tons. (Off topic I know, but the 3 litre, auto gearbox Outback is a superb tow car). Incidentally, I appreciate that the current phrase is Maximum Allowable Mass but most people still refer to weight as it's virtually synonymous.

 

[duncan]

I think you'll find that the legal maximum total weight of a trailer plus load, with overrun brakes, is 3500 kg on the public roads in the UK. To legally tow a heavier trailer, with a Land Rover or any other vehicle, requires the trailer brakes to be directly actuated in conjunction with the vehicle brakes, e.g. by means of a hydraulic hose connection.

I have always worked to 3500 all up - although my Landcruiser has a manufactuer suggested towing max of 2800. In practice this has meant around 3100 a couple of times shifting my current boat.

I'm not sure that the direct actuation of the brakes is the only way to legally go over 3500, but it's one. Either way 3500 is a limit.

The other practical issue is braking - increasing the weight in the towing vehicle generally improves the overall stability but shouldn't be done by increasing the overall train weight.

 

[carlton]

Just on a slight tangent as I don't tow my boat - or anything else, for that matter - but what if you have 'grandad rights' and can drive a 7.5 tonner?

I think max. train weight (as it was known) is 12.5 tonnes, so does that mean it should be possible/legal to lug a 5 tonne rig behind a hired Iveco Cargo or similar?

 

[Coaster]

JI think max. train weight (as it was known) is 12.5 tonnes, so does that mean it should be possible/legal to lug a 5 tonne rig behind a hired Iveco Cargo or similar?

Apparently so, as long as you use the right type of trailer. Having browsed the subject I see a ring hitch is required, rather than a ball hitch, and the brakes must be "close-coupled". It seems these brakes, for road trailers, are usually actuated by air lines from the towing vehicle.

It's all a bit more complicated than hitching up a smallish domestic trailer.

 

[carlton]

It's all a bit more complicated than hitching up a smallish domestic trailer.

Oh, I'm sure it is. Just wanted the info for future reference, although allowing for the trailer weight I'd imagine maximum boat weight couldn't be much over 4 tonnes, so a lot of work for not much gain.

Posing the question another way, my boat (bare) weighs in at 5.5 tonnes. How could I legally tow it if I wanted to? HGV only?

 

[landlockedpirate]

I was told that a particular old model of Landrover or Range Rover can legally tow 4,000kg with that fact being indicated as an exception on the registration document.

Unfortunately, the guy no longer works for me so I cannot confirm the exact model etc.

You are nearly correct, the 1996/1997 Discovery was legally allowed to tow 5000kg, but the trailer had to have power breaks. Standard overrun breaks had a limit of 3500kg.

 

[andy59]

hopefully this may help
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/requirementsfortrailers

 

[AndieMac]

Posing the question another way, my boat (bare) weighs in at 5.5 tonnes. How could I legally tow it if I wanted to? HGV only?

I would want the small truck to control the outfit, you are certainly getting up to a serious tow weight Carlton.
The truck will have the appropiate gearing to get the rig off the mark on inclines without low ratio and steady any swagger that may develop on declines.
If you have a truck attached to a dubiously large rig, the inquisitive eye of the authorities may be averted.

The upper tow limits on the older discos is ambitious to say the very least.

We have a 50mm standard ball to 3500kgs, then a 70mm, a 110mm and not sure of the next ball size, before it goes to a ring attachment.

 

[hlb]

About 2.5 tons is plenty, on the back of any 4x4, The problem is not going, it's stopping it.

HGV's work off a different system. The trailer is braked by air pressure and the trailer brakes first. So trailer stops the truck, rather than truck stops trailer.

Thus, an 8 ton truck can tow a 40 ton trailer.

 

[Col]

Irrespective of towing vehicle or trailer weight a 50mm ball hitch is only rated to 3500kg which is why 3500kg is max trailer weight for the road. Your permiited towing limit may well be lower depending on vehicle type/make.

 

[bendyone]

I haver an old licence to drive 7.5 tonner. This is with my old Hunter 26 on a 3000KG trailer, total weight less than 3500KG. I wouldn't want to tow it behind a 4x4

 

[trooper]

Towing limits are as we all know very complex but more frustrating is trying to get a straight answer!! I took a different approach - I used to know personally one of the Vosa guys you see at the HGV inspection points on the motorways. They are a helpful bunch - to get a straight answer if you can see that they are not busy they could be a valuable source of info.