Torrevieja and ISDMT Tax

[ QUOTE ]
along the lines of 'poor brits hounded by spanish tax bandits' might not be strictly true but it won't get in the way of a good story. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]It's more likely to backfire...

Wealthy British tax exiles living on luxury yachts in marinas along the Costas demand tax exemptions while Britain freezes, and the NHS grinds to a halt

Wealthy yachtsmen, many of whom have been living a virtually tax-free life on their yachts in Spain, enjoying the high life with other wealthy ex-pats, are now demanding that they be made a special case....

I should keep quiet /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Or, alternatively, Well-heeled Whingers Relaxing on their Luxury Yachts in the Spanish Sun sipping Sangria complain about EuroTaxes" (picture of Beckhams on Sunseeker parked in Puerto Banus, Simon Cowell on Princess in Sotogrande, etc etc). /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Well, the report that triggered this thread off (or rather the less useful one on the MOBO forum) was in the Daily Telegraph. Such reports are usually prompted by somebody getting the ear of a reporter who has some space to fill on a wet Wednesday. The "report" was a re-hash of existing material.

These issues do not really attract the attention of investigative journalists. Even the much worse land scandals in Spain which affect far more people rarely get an airing - although there was a page on it in one of this Sunday's propert supplements.

How would a journalist (or an MP) find out any more than has been on this thread - and who cares anyway as there is no chance of influencing the Spanish authorities.
 
What a strange phrase "rely on the state". The State has already taken responsibility for healthcare of every individual and funds it through taxation. So why should any rational person pay again for something they have already paid for?

And nobody has an option in the sense that the state will refund tax and NI contributions if you choose to pay privately - you are paying twice for the same thing!

If you choose to put yourself in a position of not being able to use the NHS, that is your problem. Those who pay extra to avoid the NHS are in a minority - rightly so because there is no need.

But don't suggest that the majority should spend less on things they want, to pay for healthcare that they have already paid for.

Why is "conspicuous consumption" (according to your definition) "mind blowing"? I always thought that being in a position to choose is one of the rewards of living in a prosperous society! Have to be careful here or I will start recalling my (less than prosperous) childhood, or worse, that of my parents!
 
Some interesting things here:
http://www.nauticalegal.com/artics/Navegar_n163_p126.pdf

The relevant bit is translated as:
RESIDENT PROPRIETOR IN A COUNTRY OF THE EU In this case, the proprietor or user will have to pay the IVA (16%) since it is a tax of communitarian scope, that is to say, must pay it all the residents in the EU and it is free of the payment of the Tax of Matriculation. The applicable IVA is the one of the country in which the purchase is realised, being in Spain a 16% of price of the boat. To buy and to register in Spain for a communitarian citizen non-resident in Spain can be advantageous
 
Torrevieja now let me see, Intenational marina, now what do my notes say - told to pi** off the day I arrived at the marina toask if I could berth - kept awake all night by salt being loaded in freighter, anchor dragged, wire fence at convenient dinghy landing area where sharp exposed piles make dinghy run hazardous. Friends threatened by police to move on, no drinking water. Its Ok I've crossed this place off my list anyway for some unaccountable reason - you say they are now taxing people as well - read my lips dont go there!
 
Tranona, [ QUOTE ]
How would a journalist (or an MP) find out any more than has been on this thread - and who cares anyway as there is no chance of influencing the Spanish authorities.


[/ QUOTE ]
There are many people that contribute on this forum that make Quotes that are not fact! They rely on rumour rather than the facts. Perhaps if a sensible question is put to an MP who is "Worth their salt" it can looked into and rather than rumour, the facts may emurge? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
and even more

powerboats are found wearing a red ensign with no-one on board who can speak English.

As far as French mobos are concerned UK is benevolently laissez faire.

No doubt the loophole will soon be stopped and UK yachties will have to pay a "water-tax" in the interests of "harmonisation".
 
Re: and even more

Charles Yes I've had that experience, once greeted a ,relatively rare in Portoscuso, Brit flag with cheery 'Allo mate' to be greeted with total non comprehension at all. (thought I would use that rather than the more northerely 'fit like?') /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
What a strange phrase "rely on the state". The State has already taken responsibility for healthcare of every individual and funds it through taxation. So why should any rational person pay again for something they have already paid for?

And nobody has an option in the sense that the state will refund tax and NI contributions if you choose to pay privately - you are paying twice for the same thing!

[/ QUOTE ]

If it WAS the same thing then nobody would pay for private healthcare. Private healthcare has been one of the fastest expanding industry sectors for over a decade. You say "pay again for something they have already paid for". They haven't paid for the full service. The present NHS offer gives massive delays on fairly basic surgery and no access to the latest medicines and treatments. It is a second-rate service at best and fast becoming a third-world class service. If you haven't experienced it, try talking to some of your older relatives. You will shocked to the core. Furthermore, whatever you pay is used to fund current spending; none of it is used as an insurance for you in future so you can have paid into the scheme all your life and then be disqualified from using it because, during your retirement, you spend more than three months in Benidorm in the winter!

[ QUOTE ]
Those who pay extra to avoid the NHS are in a minority - rightly so because there is no need.

[/ QUOTE ] Tell my mother in law that. She waited, crippled, for two years for a new hip which was a success but now she has no set date for the second hip. "No need?"

[ QUOTE ]
But don't suggest that the majority should spend less on things they want, to pay for healthcare that they have already paid for

[/ QUOTE ] You don't seem to understand how it works. They haven't paid for anything. They are paying. And they are paying for a service that millions are grumbling about and millions more are opting out of.

[ QUOTE ]
Why is "conspicuous consumption" (according to your definition) "mind blowing"? I always thought that being in a position to choose is one of the rewards of living in a prosperous society!

[/ QUOTE ]Do you ever leave the UK for a while and go back? All those dangerously obese people motoring around on electric trikes because they cannot waddle more than a few steps. When do you see that on the Continent? Park-up by what was RAF Manston and watch the imported grocery flights come in; you can't miss it as the flight path is like a river of carbon in the sky. The range, quantity and shere luxury of the foods eaten in today's Britain is awesome. This has changed dramatically over the last five or ten years presumably along with the 'wealth' generated by Mortgage Equity Withdrawal and the housing boom. Yes, "conspicuous consumption" is a fair way to describe modern Britain. Over consumption way beyond the income, wealth or best interests of the population. If they cut back their spending to the European norm and spent the difference on healthcare (privately or on the NHS) then they wouldn't have a health service that leaves elderly people crippled for years, for the want of a routine operation.

They wouldn't have to have a debate about whether NICE will allow the latest drug to be prescribed, and if prescribed by their doctor, whether they will lose their entire NHS entitlement and have to fund their healthcare entirely from private funds.

Yes, "Rely on the state" sums it up. It's where we actually are, not where we should be, but let's recognise the truth.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Torrevieja now let me see, Intenational marina, now what do my notes say - told to pi** off the day I arrived at the marina toask if I could berth - kept awake all night by salt being loaded in freighter, anchor dragged, wire fence at convenient dinghy landing area where sharp exposed piles make dinghy run hazardous. Friends threatened by police to move on, no drinking water. Its Ok I've crossed this place off my list anyway for some unaccountable reason - you say they are now taxing people as well - read my lips dont go there!

[/ QUOTE ]Bang on. One of few places I have stayed where I will never go back. Thoroughly unpleasant lot. It is a centre for crime and drugs, I understand with a sort of Spanish 'Mafia'. The Brits I spoke to in the marinas were also very unfriendly. Weird. Will die.
 
What a bleak picture you portray! You are in danger of drowning in your own rhetoric!

If thats what you want to see, that is what you will see, because you are not looking at the millions of people who do not live in the way that you describe, and like me have received excellent care from the NHS for all of my long life - off to the Audiologist tomorrow, completely free except for paying for car parking.

As you know, I have spent my life travelling around the world, and much as I admire many aspects of life in many other countries I still feel happy back in UK.

You might also ask why UK is the most popular immigration destination in Europe, not just for people from the "new" Europe but from the "old". One recent report estimated that in the last 10 years, 350000 young French people have moved to the UK to work - even got Sarkozy worried when he was trying to get elected! I have direct experience of this when I ran a PG programme for students from 4 European universities. Many of the European students ended up working in the UK through choice. Reasons? better opportunities, escape from suffocating social structures and the opportunity to create their own future.

So what we have is perhaps old and bitter non-economically active people moving out the UK and being replaced by young progressive people who see opportunities. Not surprising that the French and Spanish rather resent this!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Some interesting things here:
http://www.nauticalegal.com/artics/Navegar_n163_p126.pdf

The relevant bit is translated as:
RESIDENT PROPRIETOR IN A COUNTRY OF THE EU In this case, the proprietor or user will have to pay the IVA (16%) since it is a tax of communitarian scope, that is to say, must pay it all the residents in the EU and it is free of the payment of the Tax of Matriculation. The applicable IVA is the one of the country in which the purchase is realised, being in Spain a 16% of price of the boat. To buy and to register in Spain for a communitarian citizen non-resident in Spain can be advantageous

[/ QUOTE ]

More translation:[ QUOTE ]

The tourist matriculation allows the act of register under nation's flag in Spain of provisional form of a boat, property of a non-resident, without having to eliminate all the taxes that would demand a resident - tax of matriculation in all the cases and IVA.
We are clarifying point by point which are the characteristics and to be able requirements to include itself in this assumption. In first place, to say that one is a provisional act of register under nation's flag, that is to say, that the boat will not hoist Spanish flag completely, what it does not mean that exists a temporary limit for this situation. An established maximum term does not exist for the use of the flag provisionally, which supposes that this situation can extend a all the life of the boat while no they change the conditions that are allowed to take refuge in the assumption. The proprietor must be a person physics, thus the regime no he is applicable to companies. The requirement more important, than it determines possible inclusion of the boat in the assumption, is that the physical person who it registers and it uses the boat is a non-resident in Spain. It is considered non-resident to which in period of a year, 365 days, permanence like minimum 183 abroad. This end can be credited by means of the obtaining of a certificate of nonresidence that they send the Spanish authorities.

[/ QUOTE ]

What all this appears to say is that a non resident of Spain can register their boat under the Spanish flag with no liability to Spanish matriculation tax. If that is the case there can be no liability to pay this tax for a foreign registered boat with non resident owner either?
 
[ QUOTE ]

What all this appears to say is that a non resident of Spain can register their boat under the Spanish flag with no liability to Spanish matriculation tax. If that is the case there can be no liability to pay this tax for a foreign registered boat with non resident owner either?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure about this. The ISDMT is not specific to yachts. If you buy a holiday home in Spain planning to spend <183 days there and buy a car, you buy a properly matriculated and homogulated vehicle. If you emigrate to Spain with your UK car you can import it and matriculate it free of ISDMT along with your other chattels provided you declare it on the initial form. I don't know if that's true of yachts, but nobody would volunteer to re-flag Spanish in any case so it's academic.
 
By coincidence we were hailed by two green uniformed Spanish only 10 minutes ago. Guardia or Aduana I don't know which.

They seemed to want to know how long we would be here in Sant Carles. They spoke no English but seemed happy to understand that the boat was staying but we would be coming and going. They didn't ask for any papers, so I will be interested to see if they come back.

I have not seen them on the pontoons before.
 
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