Torqeedo Outboards?

Mister E said:
It is a shame that what is a technical thread and the only way the questions can be answered is by someone in the trade is stifled.
I have not seen any direct advertising just a company name. From who I can not get information on here.
Such a shame.
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So are we going to ban the many others who we know have a business to run yet spend their time regularly helping others out expecting nothing by way of reward?

I haven't seen one post that I would consider advertising by nestawayboats, and Ian has been totally open about the fact that they are dealers.

For me this thread has answered a lot of questions about Torqeedos including some I would never have thought to ask, so much so that after discussing it with the admiral last night we've decided to sell the 2 stroke embrace new technology.

So thanks to everyone who has contributed to one of the best threads I've ever seen on PBO.
 
Bouba said:
This is quite exciting for us electric fans;) I am very interested in whether the 1103 is better than the Epropulsion or it’s just catchup (still no floating battery?). Are Epropulsion planning an update?
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Was out on the water yesterday with a brand new Torqeedo 1103. And amazingly somebody else was out in an identical boat with an Epropulsion Spirit on the back. Race time! Initially it looked like the 1103 was a clear winner but then we looked more carefully at the leg/shaft angles and trimmed the Spirit out one "stop" to match the Torqeedo. Then it was neck and neck, the fastest boat was whoever could get their weight furthest forward (these were 15ft inflatable motor canoes), lengthening the waterline. Until the boat veered off and they had to go back aft to adjust the tiller, when the other one immediately gained an advantage.

We then put a piece of rope between the two transoms and engaged in a bizarrely silent aquatic tug of war. The boats proceeded to gently pirouette around each other, one gaining slight advantage as the other one's propeller briefly cavitated, and vice versa. There really was nothing in it.

We also swapped boats just so that each of us could see what the other motor was like. Also of course cancelling out any differences caused by me being fatter than the other bloke. Still no difference in speed of any measurable significance, flat out or half power. The Epropulsion Spirit was very quiet but the Torqeedo 1103 was actually quieter, all but silent. Just under 6 knots in a small boat feels eerily fast when there's no noise, bar the waves splashing at the bow.

Retiring to the pub we had quite a long discussion that my wife would think incredibly boring (but luckily she wasn't there):
- the Epropulsion battery has 10% more capacity (1018Wh) than Torqeedo's largest battery (916Wh, supplied as standard with the new 1103). As the top speeds, and indeed speeds at half power, were indistinguishable from each other, all else being equal then the Epropulsion has 10% more range. It's probably actually a bit more difference than that at full power as the Torqeedo draws 1100W while the Epropulsion draws 1000W. (The 100W extra power didn't seem to make any difference to top speed in this race.)
- the Epropulsion battery floats if dropped (Torqeedo doesn't)
- the Epropulsion battery can be recharged faster than the Torqeedo (about twice as fast on standard mains charger)
- the Torqeedo 1103 is definitely quieter than the already very quiet Epropulsion. Both are very smooth.
- the new Torqeedo 1103 has completely eliminated the throttle response delay (that has been observed by other posters on this thread) relating to the 1003 model.
- the Epropulsion is heavier overall but (probably more important for most people) the shaft/motor with battery removed is lighter by about a kilo. The Epropulsion battery is (some would say obviously from that) a couple of kilos heavier than the Torqeedo one.
- the Torqeedo 1103 has a noticeably larger bulb (motor housing) than the Epropulsion Spirit. About 3" longer and quite a bit fatter. This doesn't matter at all on the back of a dinghy, but might matter if trying to install in a "well" (ie as an inboard outboard), and might make a difference to where you can store it.
- the Torqeedo 1103 like the 1003 has GPS speed and range indicator on its tiller LCD, the Epropulsion doesn't. But both tell you what you really want to know, which is how much battery you have and how much power you are using at the moment (hence we were able to do the half power speed tests with some reasonable accuracy)

That's all I can think of at the moment. The two are quite closely matched, I'd say.
 
I too found the thread interesting, pity some idiot complained, why?, The chap from Nestaway was up front and has given information freely about both units available at the moment, good service for those interested in electric outboards, why knock it on the head?
 
dolabriform said:
So are we going to ban the many others who we know have a business to run yet spend their time regularly helping others out expecting nothing by way of reward?

I haven't seen one post that I would consider advertising by nestawayboats, and Ian has been totally open about the fact that they are dealers.

For me this thread has answered a lot of questions about Torqeedos including some I would never have thought to ask, so much so that after discussing it with the admiral last night we've decided to sell the 2 stroke embrace new technology.

So thanks to everyone who has contributed to one of the best threads I've ever seen on PBO.
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Totally agree.
 
Bouba said:
Mods, please be reasonable! The information that Ian provides is not available anywhere else. He is completely none partisan and mostly offers expert advice to people who already have purchased their outboard but just want technical advice or an idea which way the market is heading.
Electric propulsion (car or boat) is a huge issue at this juncture in time. Sane heads are in short supply, please do not censor them.
Thank you
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A big +1. One of the most helpful and informative posters and about a very topical area of emerging technology of interest to a wide audience. And with no commercial push.
Thanks Ian (and no thanks to a complainer who perhaps does have a vested interest?)

PS. As a YM subscriber can I ask the Editor to commission Ian to write an article for the magazine on these new outboards
 
ianthomson said:
Was out on the water yesterday with a brand new Torqeedo 1103. And amazingly somebody else was out in an identical boat with an Epropulsion Spirit on the back. Race time! Initially it looked like the 1103 was a clear winner but then we looked more carefully at the leg/shaft angles and trimmed the Spirit out one "stop" to match the Torqeedo. Then it was neck and neck, the fastest boat was whoever could get their weight furthest forward (these were 15ft inflatable motor canoes), lengthening the waterline. Until the boat veered off and they had to go back aft to adjust the tiller, when the other one immediately gained an advantage.

We then put a piece of rope between the two transoms and engaged in a bizarrely silent aquatic tug of war. The boats proceeded to gently pirouette around each other, one gaining slight advantage as the other one's propeller briefly cavitated, and vice versa. There really was nothing in it.

We also swapped boats just so that each of us could see what the other motor was like. Also of course cancelling out any differences caused by me being fatter than the other bloke. Still no difference in speed of any measurable significance, flat out or half power. The Epropulsion Spirit was very quiet but the Torqeedo 1103 was actually quieter, all but silent. Just under 6 knots in a small boat feels eerily fast when there's no noise, bar the waves splashing at the bow.

Retiring to the pub we had quite a long discussion that my wife would think incredibly boring (but luckily she wasn't there):
- the Epropulsion battery has 10% more capacity (1018Wh) than Torqeedo's largest battery (916Wh, supplied as standard with the new 1103). As the top speeds, and indeed speeds at half power, were indistinguishable from each other, all else being equal then the Epropulsion has 10% more range. It's probably actually a bit more difference than that at full power as the Torqeedo draws 1100W while the Epropulsion draws 1000W. (The 100W extra power didn't seem to make any difference to top speed in this race.)
- the Epropulsion battery floats if dropped (Torqeedo doesn't)
- the Epropulsion battery can be recharged faster than the Torqeedo (about twice as fast on standard mains charger)
- the Torqeedo 1103 is definitely quieter than the already very quiet Epropulsion. Both are very smooth.
- the new Torqeedo 1103 has completely eliminated the throttle response delay (that has been observed by other posters on this thread) relating to the 1003 model.
- the Epropulsion is heavier overall but (probably more important for most people) the shaft/motor with battery removed is lighter by about a kilo. The Epropulsion battery is (some would say obviously from that) a couple of kilos heavier than the Torqeedo one.
- the Torqeedo 1103 has a noticeably larger bulb (motor housing) than the Epropulsion Spirit. About 3" longer and quite a bit fatter. This doesn't matter at all on the back of a dinghy, but might matter if trying to install in a "well" (ie as an inboard outboard), and might make a difference to where you can store it.
- the Torqeedo 1103 like the 1003 has GPS speed and range indicator on its tiller LCD, the Epropulsion doesn't. But both tell you what you really want to know, which is how much battery you have and how much power you are using at the moment (hence we were able to do the half power speed tests with some reasonable accuracy)

That's all I can think of at the moment. The two are quite closely matched, I'd say.
Click to expand...
Being so equal is actually a disappointment. Why are Torqeedo so conservative? Are they now just trading on the German manufacturing reputation instead of a technical edge? Or did Epropulsion just get it right first pop and technology hasn’t progressed? An updated Epropulsion might be something worth waiting for.
Great review Ian:)
 
Bouba said:
Being so equal is actually a disappointment. Why are Torqeedo so conservative? Are they now just trading on the German manufacturing reputation instead of a technical edge? Or did Epropulsion just get it right first pop and technology hasn’t progressed? An updated Epropulsion might be something worth waiting for.
Great review Ian:)
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I think they have similar performance because they're both achieving about the maximum that's possible with current technology, at a price that's realistically acceptable (more or less!) to the market. Batteries are the main limiting factor and there is no way the marine market generates enough income to fund that kind of research, so it has to trickle down from elsewhere.

Things are definitely moving on. As I recall the best product in this market 10 years ago was an 800W motor with a 300Wh battery. The Torqeedo 1003 was a leap forward, launched in 2010 as a 1000W motor with a 400Wh battery. Now you can buy a 1003 (or the new 1103) with a 916Wh capacity battery, housed in the same size case casing as the old 400Wh version.
 
RupertW said:
Agreed and I’m really sorry that somebody complained - I have found the nest away contributions really useful as a Torqueedo owner and enthusiast for years. I have learnt lots of new stuff and was looking forward to learning more.
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+1 do not agree that he was banned from posting. He was not promoting his business, he was sharing knowledge.
 
RupertW said:
Agreed and I’m really sorry that somebody complained - I have found the nest away contributions really useful as a Torqueedo owner and enthusiast for years. I have learnt lots of new stuff and was looking forward to learning more.
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I completely agree - an excellent thread that has been informative and not only had really good input from the company (without even a hint of advertising) but also dug out a lot of comment from both current users and genuinely interest but slightly cautious interested parties. This is EXACTLY the sort of thread that PBO should be about to my mind - getting the sort of information that you can't get elsewhere from a genuinely transparent person inside the industry. In fact Nestaway have been totally honest with comments about shear pins, energy density compared to petrol, direct drive vs gearbox, the possibility of dropping batteries in the water, etc. as well as the upsides of electric ownership. Especially given that they can supply petrol and at least two brands of electric I think they're exactly the kind of "inside line" that's so important.
 
nestawayboats said:
We have been asked not to make any more Posts while the Forum looks at "some complicated issues re advertising". Apparently there has been a complaint.

I have spent quite a lot of time on this thread and thought we were being about as non-commercial as we possibly could whilst answering genuine questions. And I also - perhaps mistakenly - thought that posting under a name that reveals who we are is more "open" than posing as an anonymous forumite.

So apologies:
- to whoever it is that we have offended by posting
- that we cannot post again as Nestaway Boats until/unless we are granted permission to. I believe you can still PM us and that we are still allowed to respond to those

Ian, Nestaway Boats
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What a shame, this is one of the most informative and useful threads I've read for some time.
As someone who's actively considering buying an electric outboard, thankyou for your contributions.
As a YM subscriber - Mods/admin, this sort of open and informed discussion is exactly what the forum should be about.
 
Red Panda said:
What a shame, this is one of the most informative and useful threads I've read for some time.
As someone who's actively considering buying an electric outboard, thankyou for your contributions.
As a YM subscriber - Mods/admin, this sort of open and informed discussion is exactly what the forum should be about.
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Well put totally agree. Stupid to criticise nestaway.
 
I've got to agree that this is one of the strangest moderation decisions, and we see lots of strange ones in these forums. The posts by Nestaway Boats were extremely informative, were carefully worded and didn't push their commercial interests. No way should they have been told to stop posting, especially when there are dealers for other products who repeatedly peddle their wares on here!
 
I agree that Nestaway should be allowed to continue to post.

I've consumed this thread from start to finish. I cannot believe that someone has complained unless they're a rival and can't be bothered to share information themselves. I'd just ask the mods. to be sensible as Nestaway have shared info that doesn't appear to be widely available and they appear (to me) to have done so in a non-partisan way.
 
pvb said:
I've got to agree that this is one of the strangest moderation decisions, and we see lots of strange ones in these forums. The posts by Nestaway Boats were extremely informative, were carefully worded and didn't push their commercial interests. No way should they have been told to stop posting, especially when there are dealers for other products who repeatedly peddle their wares on here!
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I have to agree with you Peter.

Is this the only technical forum that actively discourages posts from people in the industry ? I don't understand it.
 
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