Too small to cross The Channel? Ambition v Confidence

[temptress]

Can I ask how you know that when we don't know what the boat is? Or are you suggesting any 21' boat can cross the Channel in adverse weather?

Because IMO and experiance that is true.....

 

[Robin]

We once met Temptress once along time ago in Cherbourg, we had a Sun Legende 41 'Heartbeat' back then and were in the next visitor berth when she arrived. Congrats on reaching OZ!

But my comment to the OP here is that there was a crew of wrinklies back in the 70s at our then yacht club, Average age of the 4 was 74 IIRC and they sailed a 17ft Silhouette with a seagull outboard from Poole to Cherbourg, well before GPS or Decca and not even a Seafix RDF. So yes all is possible but doing such in company with 40 footers etc is not realistic, because the in company bit will end before you get out of the harbour.. I suppose leaving 24 hours before the rest might work as you could tick them of as they pass by. False security the in company bit really but perfectly possible to try to coordinate 'rally' destinations, just not passage and arrival times

 

[johnalison]

WE met Temptress once along time ago in Cherbourg, we had a Sun Legende 41 'Heartbeat' back then.

But my comment to the Op is there was a crew of wrinlies back in the 70s at our then club, Average age of the 4 was 74 and they sailed a 17ft Silhouette with a seagull outboard from Poole to Cherbourg, well before GPS or Decca. So yes all is possible but doing that in company with 40 footers etc is not realistic, because the in company bit will end before you get out of the harbour.. I suppose leaving 24 hours before the rest might work as you could tick them of as they pass by. False security the in company bit really but perfectly possible to try to coordinate 'rally' destinations, just not passage and arrival times

We did our first foreign hop in company, in 1978. All eight of us set off from Ramsgate heading for Calais in dodgy visibility, motoring in a flat calm. At our pre-sail conference it had been decided that if we met fog we would turn back. In the event, we ran into fog somewhere off the Goodwins, but none of us having radios, we all pressed on, just hearing each other's little horns pooping away. All our seamanlike intentions went by the board in our eagerness to keep up with each other. We all got there, but company is fine, so long as you are all out of sight of each other.

 

[Mrs FG]

It strikes me that there are two issues here: one is the boat, the other is the navigation. On the former, what others have said: don't go in bad weather. On the latter: Alderney, Cherbourg et al are quite easy to get into - but there is no substitute for having seen the leading marks for yourself first, instead of having to interpret the pilots and charts - especially when you'll probably be tired, trying to catch up with the bigger boats and it may be bumpy.

 

[Seajet]

Fatigue is THE factor on smaller boats and crews; this is why sailing school boats with loads of usually fit experienced people doing Yachtmaster courses can do almost anything inc a Fastnet Race, and small boats with husband and wife crews can't, realistically.

I spend a lot of money and effort on having a good cooker with pan clamps, along with easy meals and if things are dodgy self heating meals - see Amazon for lots of good stuff like this.

Also a good lee cloth so off watch crew can get a decent kip, either there or possibly up forward surrounded by duvets/ sleeping bags - either way leaving the seat by the chart table free.

It's not rocks, fog or gales that'll get you; it's FATIGUE.

 

[Kukri]

The record for crossing the Channel from the Solent to Cherbourg is held by Uffa Fox in his International 14 racing dinghy "Avenger", and the record for crossing to Brittany is held by Uffa Fox in his sliding seat canoe "Brynhild". Both in the 1930's of course.

I note Temptress's 56 hours across the Channel in a 19 footer and would like to offer my 48 hours Walton to Flushing in the 18ft wooden "Mytica" (still going strong- saw her for sale the other day) in 1976.

Yes you can do it but it is easier in the summer when the days are longer, and the big boats will be much much faster than you,

Little boats are safe just as long as their skippers are not in a hurry.

My suggestion is that you take a berth on a big boat this time, to see what it looks like, and plan to do it on your own next summer.

 

[Tammany]

Half of the known world was discovered in boats much smaller than your modern 22ft boat. Yes it's very capable, be surprised if similar boats haven't gone across the atlantic. Safety gear and common sense will see you through.

 

[Tammany]

The record for crossing the Channel from the Solent to Cherbourg is held by Uffa Fox in his International 14 racing dinghy "Avenger", and the record for crossing to Brittany is held by Uffa Fox in his sliding seat canoe "Brynhild". Both in the 1930's of course.

I note Temptress's 56 hours across the Channel in a 19 footer and would like to offer my 48 hours Walton to Flushing in the 18ft wooden "Mytica" (still going strong- saw her for sale the other day) in 1976.

Yes you can do it but it is easier in the summer when the days are longer, and the big boats will be much much faster than you,

Little boats are safe just as long as their skippers are not in a hurry.

My suggestion is that you take a berth on a big boat this time, to see what it looks like, and plan to do it on your own next summer.

Lovely, reminds me of 'We Didn't mean To Go To Sea'. Read this book and couldn't figure out where Flushing was as couldn't find it on any maps lol

 

[steve yates]

I've just read an ocean away, guy bought a caprice, learned to sail it on a lake, crossed the channel, then sailed from Falmouth to Spain and Portugal, then from there to Madeira and the canaries. Then singlehanded it to the Caribbean via the Cape Verde islands. It's 18ft long. So yes, the boat can do it.

 

[Daydream believer]

Having crossed the channel many times in a 25ft yacht I would suggest that having too many crew can be a nuisance. If it gets rough in a small boat crew cannot always sleep & sea sickness can befall anyone who has to go below. It certainly does me !!!!. So whilst it might seem a good idea to have, say, 4 on a 21 ft boat there may not be room to sit 4 in comfort to windward in the cockpit. 2 might have to sit to leeward or below & that is horrid for seasickness etc.
I now have a 31 ft boat & 3 is the comfortable number because by the time the autopilot takes up a seat there is only room for 3.
(The only person i know who can sit below 24/7is my wife & she hates sailing so one will find her reading a book or playing cards & complaining about the boat healing.)
If it gets rough going below is like climbing mount Everest & we have to let the sails right off for anyone to use the heads when we all take it in turns then get sailing again.
So if i was sailing the 21 ft boat- which is perfectly OK for the proposed crossing -I would go with just 2 people who are fit. Leave at first light after a really good nights kip with lots of ready prepared snacks & drinks & be aware that you might get some rough weather & be awake for 20 hours if it all goes a bit wrong- which it will not if you watch the weather forecasts etc. If you can moor up somewhere to save a bit of the journey it may save an hour or 2 ( we used to moor near the mouth of the Crouch but I do not know your area )
Aim for Cherbourg which is easy to get into & remember to allow for the tides. Forget about cruising in company. They could not help you anyway.

 

[RupertW]

Having crossed the channel many times in a 25ft yacht I would suggest that having too many crew can be a nuisance. If it gets rough in a small boat crew cannot always sleep & sea sickness can befall anyone who has to go below. It certainly does me !!!!. So whilst it might seem a good idea to have, say, 4 on a 21 ft boat there may not be room to sit 4 in comfort to windward in the cockpit. 2 might have to sit to leeward or below & that is horrid for seasickness etc.
I now have a 31 ft boat & 3 is the comfortable number because by the time the autopilot takes up a seat there is only room for 3.
(The only person i know who can sit below 24/7is my wife & she hates sailing so one will find her reading a book or playing cards & complaining about the boat healing.)
If it gets rough going below is like climbing mount Everest & we have to let the sails right off for anyone to use the heads when we all take it in turns then get sailing again.
So if i was sailing the 21 ft boat- which is perfectly OK for the proposed crossing -I would go with just 2 people who are fit. Leave at first light after a really good nights kip with lots of ready prepared snacks & drinks & be aware that you might get some rough weather & be awake for 20 hours if it all goes a bit wrong- which it will not if you watch the weather forecasts etc. If you can moor up somewhere to save a bit of the journey it may save an hour or 2 ( we used to moor near the mouth of the Crouch but I do not know your area )
Aim for Cherbourg which is easy to get into & remember to allow for the tides. Forget about cruising in company. They could not help you anyway.

That's interesting and I largely agree except that when we did the crossing in a 24 foot boat then would always prefer (as we do now in a bigger boat and longer passages) to get the night out of the way first. In other words if aren't sure you are going to make a destination by nightfall then go late in the afternoon timed so you are clear of land (but in sight of it) just before dark. A hot meal and a watch system whilst you are both still fairly rested means that landfall is sure to be in daylight which is a lot easier if you are tired.

I also find ships easier in the dark but if you don't then best not to be there at night at all so find daylight passages to get where you want to go - which is how we sail more these days in a larger faster boat. I think in our 24 footer we might do 10 nights a season and now we do just 2 or 3 when travelling much further distances.

 

[Daydream believer]

That's interesting and I largely agree except that when we did the crossing in a 24 foot boat then would always prefer (as we do now in a bigger boat and longer passages) to get the night out of the way first. In other words if aren't sure you are going to make a destination by nightfall then go late in the afternoon timed so you are clear of land (but in sight of it) just before dark. A hot meal and a watch system whilst you are both still fairly rested means that landfall is sure to be in daylight which is a lot easier if you are tired.

I also find ships easier in the dark but if you don't then best not to be there at night at all so find daylight passages to get where you want to go - which is how we sail more these days in a larger faster boat. I think in our 24 footer we might do 10 nights a season and now we do just 2 or 3 when travelling much further distances.

To an extent you are correct & I often used to leave late to arrive early morning so as to get a lighthouse or similar as a guiding light in the early morning then actually arrive in daylight. However, with GPS I now find this unnecessary with 24 hour harbours like Cherbourg. I also find leaving late means that I am awake & could actually get going. This time is wasted "awake" time. so I would try to sail from & just arrive not too late at night if possible. I admit that arriving at Cherbourg in the dark can be difficult if not using GPS right into the harbour as the lights are confusing first time.

The first time I went there in the dark was from Le Havre ( Single handed) I was not using GPS anywhere & arrived in rough weather. It was quite confusing & I did have difficulty even right inside the main harbour as I had not bothered to plot any bearings etc. I had initially homed on Barfleur LH as it got dark. However, the Op will be much better prepared i am sure. If he is off course there are major lights to the East & West to give guidance & indicate effects of tides.
Sailing at night can be fun for the first 3-4 hours plus the Op will have quite a long hour window in daylight. So leaving at, say 04-00 he can arrive at, say, 23-00 which will give 19 hours for a 60 mile or so trip averaging only 3Kts & that is not so difficult