Tonic 23 - Performance and Drying Out

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yachtorion

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Short version: Has anyone sailing a Jeanneau Tonic 23 in a good sea or strong conditions? Secondly, the big keel stub... how much does that impact drying out? Is it fine in sand/mud and ok with legs in other circumstances? Is it scary?

Long version: Went to view a tonic today. Looks like a great boat... desk is clear and unobstructed, rig simple, interior amazing. But the last boat I sailed much was a Hurley 22 and I'm worried that I'm going to find the tonic quite limiting in terms of it's abilities.... obviously there has to be a compromise for that brilliant interior.... my question is, how big is the comrpomise?

You could happily take a Hurley across the Irish Sea or the channel for example, would you do the same with a Tonic? Will it handle/perform ok being out in a 7 assuming you can adjust sail appropriately?

I'm looking for a boat that can do a little creek crawling, and that I can bring home for maintenance, as well as trailing from time to time, e.g. perhaps a trip to the Scottish Isles...
 
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Let me say at the outset I have no experience of sailing a Tonic 23.

However, many years ago I was interested in boats of that size and the Tonic 23 was
on the list of possibles so I took particular note of a review in one of the sailing magazines
at that time.

The memory of that review suggests that, overall, it was it was a fairly good boat for its size
but drew particular attention to the effect of wind on the hull at low speeds.

Looking at pictures of the boat it can be seen that there is not much hull underwater compared
the height of the topsides. The Hurley has much more in the water for the size of the hull.

Given the conditions outlined in your post, I would suggest that the Tonic would be severely
limited in windward ability in such conditions and, if outboard engined as most were,
would be unable to make up the deficiency under power.

If someone else replies with actual experience of sailing the Tonic in such conditions and says that
it's OK, then go with that.

Andy
 
Just looked at one on Appolo duck, 1989 for£11.000 fairly expensive, but was amazed at the way it is set up in side,so value for money, The only thing I don't like are boats like this with off set outboards, the engine on mine sits in a well, directly behind the rudder. As for mooring you have the best of both worlds with lifting keel. Hopefully a Tonic 23 owner will come along with more help.
 
Davidpbo of this parish has one, ask him.

To be honest I can't see many folk taking a 23' boat out in F7 and expecting it to do anything up wind. I wouldn't expect my Centaur to perform in those conditions, survive maybe, but who wants to arse about beating into a F7 in a small boat?

The Tonic looks nice, David's does anyway, but if I wasn't wanting a trialable boat I would go for the Fantasia.
 
Binman said:
Just looked at one on Appolo duck, 1989 for£11.000 fairly expensive, but was amazed at the way it is set up in side,so value for money, The only thing I don't like are boats like this with off set outboards, the engine on mine sits in a well, directly behind the rudder. As for mooring you have the best of both worlds with lifting keel. Hopefully a Tonic 23 owner will come along with more help.
Click to expand...

Alas, no Tonic 23 I'm afraid but I'm currently selling a Jeanneau Eolia 25: like a Tonic but better, loads of new stuff (engine, prop, sails, etc) and a whole lot cheaper. http://m.apolloduck.com/feature.phtml?id=461074

Well worth taking a look as, the longer you take to buy it, the longer I get to sail it...
 
Sorry still cannot see it, looks like a sheet of preformed plastic abutting the front of the basin cabinet at an angle sloping down from the wc? How can it be a foot pump, it looks about two foot square, it looks like when on the loo your feet are on a slopping piece of plastic, am I thick, if so I need putting down.
 
Binman said:
Sorry still cannot see it, looks like a sheet of preformed plastic abutting the front of the basin cabinet at an angle sloping down from the wc? How can it be a foot pump, it looks about two foot square, it looks like when on the loo your feet are on a slopping piece of plastic, am I thick, if so I need putting down.
Click to expand...

If it is the white flange along the bottom of the basin cabinet then that is part of the floor/tray of the WC.

The floor is at an angle which is why it is fitted with good moulded-in non-slip. There's plenty of room in there but the floor isn't flat, and the black bit just above the floor on the right is the water pump for the basin...
 
Thanks langstone, didn't realise the floor was sloping, I can see the pump handle on the left of the basin housing, they know how to pack everything in your boat,really like chart table set up and aft cabin, price your asking for boat and kit that goes with it is excellent, hope you sale it quickly, worth every penny.
 
The Tonic 23 looks very nice. Regarding lift keels you get a whole lot of compromises so you must choose your compromise.
Mine is a total vertical lift keel of 100kg leaves bottom very flat5 draft about 7 inches. Down side is a lot of space taken up by the c/b case mast support post and similar support post at back of the c/b case. Access to front cabin area awkward. Very nice for launch and retrieve and you can pull it up on shore and almost step onto dry sand.
Stub keel type with swing keel in the stub. Very nice accommodation inside but quite deep draft even with keel up. Flat plate keel not foil shaped so often poor upwind performance.
Swing keel from flat bottom leaves long c/b case right back to near entrance hatch. Very inconvenient for accommodation. But good for shallow draft easy retrieval.
With all trailer sailers. Low mass is great for towing but then makes it more uncomfortable possibly tender in rough conditions. You could try adding internal ballast but I think just choosing weather and correct sails is best strategy.
Re outboard. I would prefer adjustable height transom bracket but you get what you get in market. good luck olewill
 
William_H said:
The Tonic 23 looks very nice. Regarding lift keels you get a whole lot of compromises so you must choose your compromise.
Very nice accommodation inside but quite deep draft even with keel up. Flat plate keel not foil shaped so often poor upwind performance.

With all trailer sailers. Low mass is great for towing but then makes it more uncomfortable possibly tender in rough conditions. You could try adding internal ballast but I think just choosing weather and correct sails is best strategy.
Re outboard. I would prefer adjustable height transom bracket but you get what you get in market. good luck olewill
Click to expand...

Draught is 2'6 with keel up, I haven't measured it on trailer, can do if it is critical to anyone. I would not describe the Tonic as low mass for a trailer sailor! With a (I believe) 450Kgs cast iron shaped stub keel under the and a cast iron dagger board (Which is also shaped if I recall correctly (easily lifted with the under table winch but which I struggled to carry any distance in a boatyard) you could not add enough internal ballast to make a significant difference IMHO without causing structural problems.

Mine does not sail to windward well in much of a sea, they are beamy for the length, and my sails are original and baggy.

The shroud fixings as original are not good, they consist of U bolts through the deck with small standard U bolt backing plates either side of a knee which is only bonded to the hull and deck. Lots of pictures here: http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/17234/library/Boat/Shroud Fixings?sort=3&page=1

The one of the stainless steel plate on deck is not of my boat but a repair someone else did to theirs. Mine has SS angle bracket underneath as per one of the pictures.

I replaced the headlining in ours 2 years or so ago (Material cost cc £1000 for foam backed vinyl and glue if IIRC and left the knees and shroud fixings exposed underneath, A) because I like to be able to inspect them regularly and B) because the knees would have been difficult to cover. I painted the exposed items with gelcoat or flow coat and am happy with the result.

Picture of keel arrangement and swing keel bolt here: http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/17234/library/Boat/Drop Keel?sort=3&page=1

We have had our boat for 15 years, we mainly keep it on Windermere but have taken it up to the Clyde 2, Loch Lomond and Pwhelli. It is not an easy boat to rig, launching IMHO you need a good long sheltered slip with a pontoon beside it as the boat has to be floated on and off the trailer which is let into the water on a 10m strop from the tow vehicle.

Storage space is the most you could get on a boat this size with good size lockers under all the front berths and a two smaller lockers under the back berths, much much better than its successor the 24.2. There is a large cockpit locker. Unfortunately there is more weight on the starboard side than port. (Engine, Cockpit Locker, Heads, Chart table).

The heads are eminently usable for a small boat and give a reasonable illusion of privacy such that we were able to co-exist on the boat with our 13yr old niece and dog last year for nigh on two weeks (Lots of trips ashore because we were on WIndermere) when I had thought it would probably be 3 days.

It is lightly constructed topsides but the keel does give it stability in a blow, we did not intentionally go out in rough weather but it feels reasonably stable in a bit of blow. It is category C.

I would not like to dry out without beaching legs. There are U Bolts for them on either side but again they just have simple U bolts backing plates underneath the deck.

Decks are balsa cored so any cracks can cause problems if water gets in.
 
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I'll be putting a westerly 21 (Jouster tho I did think it was a warwick) on the market very soon been doing up as a little project, lovely boat but I need something bigger for extended stays the Jouster has great space for an overnighter albeit low headroom its a fixed keel version with an outboard if thats of any interest

Regards.
 
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