Toilets

Hurricane said:
Thanks JFM

Thats what I needed know.
I have a gut feeling (not a pun!) that ditching the Vac toilets is the way to go.
Your comments seem to confirm this.
We are going to SIBS next month so we will have a look at the different offerings.
I've done some googling and Planus do seem to be a good replacement but I have always had Tecma in the back of my mind.

Does anyone know how you get to these electric toilets for maintenance/installation?
The pump/mascerators are fitted within the unit and the pipework goes out through the floor.
How would you remove the toilet pan to get to the pump/mascerator?
Having all the parts that can go wrong, accessible seems to be a real step forward.
I just can't work out how you would get to the parts to fix them - or even to initially install them.
Click to expand...

I hope you will look at more than just toilets at SIBS :)
 
I vote for tecma too. Best upgrade i ever made.

A tecma wont fit in my aft heads, i upgraded that loo to freshwater flush. Somthing else i wont go back from despite the water use.
As i have both i am constantly reminded how much better the tecma is.

Its the quietest electric loo ive ever come across and ive been on lots of boats.

It could be better designed with regard to where the connections are but ive only had to take it out once. Wet wipes will defeat it but not much else.

An annoying thing is that whilst the 10 second later extra whirr of pump out is good, it locks the buttons out and wont let you flush until its done it. So if you want a second flush you have to wait. Knowing you though this wont be a problem for long, as you flush it from the chartplotter or something!

The buttons are labelled "before" and "after" so you dont have to show guests which lever to press.

Overall, they are great. So much better value than a £500 Jabsco or whatever.
 
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Elessar said:
I vote for tecma too. Best upgrade i ever made.

A tecma wont fit in my aft heads, i upgraded that loo to freshwater flush. Somthing else i wont go back from despite the water use.
As i have both i am constantly reminded how much better the tecma is.

Its the quietest electric loo ive ever come across and ive been on lots of boats.

It could be better designed with regard to where the connections are but ive only had to take it out once. Wet wipes will defeat it but not much else.

An annoying thing is that whilst the 10 second later extra whirr of pump out is good, it locks the buttons out and wont let you flush until its done it. So if you want a second flush you have to wait. Knowing you though this wont be a problem for long, as you flush it from the chartplotter or something!

The buttons are labelled "before" and "after" so you dont have to show guests which lever to press.

Overall, they are great. So much better value than a £500 Jabsco or whatever.
Click to expand...

The delay is annoying. I think you can change it to "house" setting which leaves water in the bowl and may stop it ?
 
jrudge said:
The delay is annoying. I think you can change it to "house" setting which leaves water in the bowl and may stop it ?
Click to expand...
Doesn't bother me but you could easily overcome it by hacking the firmware or fitting an override switch to power up the pump and water valve (so creating another flush) before the time delay has expired. The controller is pretty simple.

Hurricane I'll be interested to hear your conclusions on Planus. I don't know whether anyone is exhibiting them at SIBS. I'd suggest that while at the show you shouldn't burn up much time with Leesan - they are excellent folks and a nice firm to deal with but they just don't do Tecma so you will waste a lot of time hearing from them how good their alternatives are, when none of them is as good as Tecma/Planus. In my view the retailers of these products know little compared with folks like us who have lived with them and maintained them for 10++ years on a variety of boats on cruises of several weeks, so I wouldn't be looking for much advice from UK-based retailers tbh. Happy shopping!
 
M, not much to add to what has already been said about Tecmas, aside from confirming wholeheartedly.
Btw, I might well be one of the longer Tecma testers here in the asylum, since that's one of the very first refitting jobs I made in the old lady, after I bought her back in 2000.
15+ years after, I would still be unable to answer your question about maintenance, simply because I never had to do any... And you know how long we stay onboard during summer and beyond.
Btw, I'm glad to have Tecmas also on the DP (the yard used to fit them as standard).
And also those still look brand new, and they work as if they were, on a 2004 boat.

That said, I've also been told that there has been a bit of corner cutting in the latest years productions, particularly of pumps.
So, checking out also Planus (of which I have no 1st hane experience, but I heard nothing but praises about their stuff) could be a good idea...
Anyway, all the best for your project!
 
jrudge said:
The delay is annoying. I think you can change it to "house" setting which leaves water in the bowl and may stop it ?
Click to expand...
Fwiw, we developed the habit of doing the first step (so to speak - I mean the left button, which only fills the bottom of the bowl) as a last step instead - i.e. after the right button, which commands the two-phases flush.
The idea was along the lines of better safe than sorry, with regard to avoiding any returning smell.
Of course, we dry out the bowls before cruising, just in case - and btw we never experienced smell problems also with the bowl empty - but I suppose this can be also an alternative way to do what you are asking without the need to modify anything at all...
 
MapisM said:
...this can be also an alternative way to do what you are asking without the need to modify anything at all...
Click to expand...
I don't think so MM. The "problem" is that there is a c 40 seconds delay between step 2a (the main flush) and step 2b (the final little extra run of the pump). During that delay it is not possible to do another step 2a, and what you're suggesting wont fix that. Neither would what jrudge suggested (ie the "house" setting) fix it.
 
Yup, agreed, the delay obviously is still there.
But I understood that jrudge also wanted to leave water in the bowl, which can indeed be done by inverting the before and after sequence, sort of... :)

PS: 40" sounds a LOT, btw.
I just went down to a cabin because I couldn't resist checking, and I measured exactly half of that, between the first and the second flush...
 
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jfm said:
I don't think so MM. The "problem" is that there is a c 40 seconds delay between step 2a (the main flush) and step 2b (the final little extra run of the pump). During that delay it is not possible to do another step 2a, and what you're suggesting wont fix that. Neither would what jrudge suggested (ie the "house" setting) fix it.
Click to expand...

Ha. You said 40 seconds and I said 10!!

So I had to time it.

End of the first whirr to the start o the second is 20 seconds (on mine)

Is the worst part of the design that you can't just press "after" again without waiting.

Edit and whilst I was doing my test flush Mapis concurs 20s :)
 
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jfm said:
The tecma has a big DC motor that draws 35 amps at 24v, but of course for a very short time only. You might need to beef up your circuit breakers as the vacuflush vac units probably only draw 6 amps or so. You might want also to make sure the tecmas are earthed onto the main battery busbar and not at an intermediate busbar that electronics are connected to. Otherwise the electronics will see a volt or 2 on their negative for a micro second when the tecma flush motors form a dead short at start up.
Click to expand...

Been checking the Princess wiring today.
And looking at the Planus website, they indicate 25 amps at 24v (35 amps at 12v)
Unfortunately, our wires are only 3mm (the Vac units state 4a on their rating plates)
So I will have to install new wires back to the distribution panel - not a big deal - I will probably install a new MCB panel/box in our electronics bay where the main ships DC switched 24v wires are terminated - dropping bigger wires down to under the toilet floors should be a fairly easy job.
An unfortunate outcome is that there are currently switches (Gweis) in the bathrooms that control the feeds to the respective Vac units - when I've added the new wires, these old switches will be redundant - bit of a shame - unless someone can think of a use for them.

Actually, there is another advantage with switching to electric toilets.
I will then remove all the existing vac units and the associated pipework.
This creates space for a water maker - another project that makes us even more independent.
This year, the solar panels have been a great success - we were away from shore power for three weeks and the batteries were never less than about 63%.
However, we were short of water and needed to go into port - just for water - not diesel - just water.
I've always said that I can't justify a water maker for the three weeks of the year when there is always an alternative of popping in to fill the tanks.
But now that we have all the power that we need, maybe a water maker is the next step.
On a number of days, the solar panels had finished charging the batteries by about 1 or 2 o'clock in the afternoon - in those cases. we could have started making water (for free).
Anyway, back to the point - clearing out the vac units will give a nice shelf to install a water maker.
 
Hurricane said:
This creates space for a water maker - another project that makes us even more independent.
This year, the solar panels have been a great success - we were away from shore power for three weeks and the batteries were never less than about 63%.
However, we were short of water and needed to go into port - just for water - not diesel - just water.
I've always said that I can't justify a water maker for the three weeks of the year when there is always an alternative of popping in to fill the tanks.
But now that we have all the power that we need, maybe a water maker is the next step.
On a number of days, the solar panels had finished charging the batteries by about 1 or 2 o'clock in the afternoon - in those cases. we could have started making water (for free).
Anyway, back to the point - clearing out the vac units will give a nice shelf to install a water maker.
Click to expand...

do it!

keep in mind that typically there is ONE size pump fits all. So the 30lph, 60lph and 120lph (and even more) all run off the same h/w with I guess slightly different Ah consumptions.
Doubt you'll run such a thing from an inverter though.
Also not so sure on the 12/24V ones but I haven't checked every brand around.
With a 120lph watermaker, you could run the geny an extra hour or two every few days and be done with. Or run it when moving from one anchorage to another so you don't get the extra disruption from the geny when anchored.

cheers

V.
 
Like you we had various vac flush woes in the Sunseeker and bills .
Itama has electric ,fresh water + bidet function -- just pres a button .
They aren't Tecma but somthing like with nice ceramic bowls and just 2 fix down screws and the slid out -flex pipes n all .
I just replace £20 worth of solinoid on one .
I would not go back to vac u flush .

Bit too much personal info warning
Bidet I like that in the Med wearing mesh lined swimwear .
If you are a hairey arsed type of bloke after eating a Med oilly dinner the night before ,let's just say after the bidet function all you have to do is dry .
So it's ecomonical with paper but the main thing you end up sans skid marks very easily .
Cos there's not much paper you can do the flush in one press --saving water and black tank capacity .
Well that's my 0.02 p ,s worth on bogs

Water maker
Are they power hungry ,I mean will your solar after lunch top up be able to run a decent 100 L + unit ? via an inverter ?
I thought you need to run the Geny for AC
 
Portofino said:
Bit too much personal info warning
Bidet I like that in the Med wearing mesh lined swimwear .
If you are a hairey arsed type of bloke after eating a Med oilly dinner the night before ,let's just say after the bidet function all you have to do is dry .
So it's ecomonical with paper but the main thing you end up sans skid marks very easily .
Cos there's not much paper you can do the flush in one press --saving water and black tank capacity .
Click to expand...

:) Never thought I'd read something as detailed as that on here....
 
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Portofino said:
Water maker
Are they power hungry ,I mean will your solar after lunch top up be able to run a decent 100 L + unit ? via an inverter ?
I thought you need to run the Geny for AC
Click to expand...

just checked my HRO system manual:

220V startup surge 44A :eek: (haven't seen that ever tbh, my 8KVA gen wouldn't make it I guess)
operation 9A, yes I've seen that alright. So 2KW inverter would probably be on the edge. I have it on a 20A breaker.

Startup surge I think relates to starting the watermaker on normal pressure (which is 800psi btw) which is quite bad for the membrane, so I always start low pressure and manually built it up. This way there are no spikes in Amps (I think at least and the way the gen takes the load confirms it)


cheers

V.
 
I know this is drifting the thread but just quickly.
I'm considering a DC water maker - something around 60l per hour - maybe less.
Lots of water to go under the bridge on this subject but it seems that I could run something for 10a to 20a
DC because it would then run under all circumstances - with or without the generator - with or without the solar panels - and under way with the engines powering it.
There is an interesting option of incorporating 2 pumps - one pump 30l per hour (10a) - two pumps 60l per hour (10a)
Using this, the solar panels could power a single pump with the second pump when water was required quicker.
All just a thinking stage at the moment.
 
Portofino said:
Like you we had various vac flush woes in the Sunseeker and bills .
Itama has electric ,fresh water + bidet function -- just pres a button .
They aren't Tecma but somthing like with nice ceramic bowls and just 2 fix down screws and the slid out -flex pipes n all .
I just replace £20 worth of solinoid on one .
I would not go back to vac u flush .

Bit too much personal info warning
Bidet I like that in the Med wearing mesh lined swimwear .
If you are a hairey arsed type of bloke after eating a Med oilly dinner the night before ,let's just say after the bidet function all you have to do is dry .
So it's ecomonical with paper but the main thing you end up sans skid marks very easily .
Cos there's not much paper you can do the flush in one press --saving water and black tank capacity .
Well that's my 0.02 p ,s worth on bogs

Water maker
Are they power hungry ,I mean will your solar after lunch top up be able to run a decent 100 L + unit ? via an inverter ?
I thought you need to run the Geny for AC
Click to expand...

I have the Tecma bidets as well and I always wondered why install such in a boat. But what u say makes perfect sense!
 
Portofino said:
Bit too much personal info warning
Bidet I like that in the Med wearing mesh lined swimwear .
If you are a hairey arsed type of bloke after eating a Med oilly dinner the night before ,let's just say after the bidet function all you have to do is dry .
So it's ecomonical with paper but the main thing you end up sans skid marks very easily .
Cos there's not much paper you can do the flush in one press --saving water and black tank capacity .
Well that's my 0.02 p ,s worth on bogs
Click to expand...

It's at time like this I wish it was possible to 'unread' a post!
 
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