Tidal… Comp Crew or Day Skipper?

[SarHud]

Hello all,
My husband and I are new to sailing, he’s been out as a helping hand a few times from Hamble to IOW and really fancies making it a more regular past time and would one day like to sail more regularly - dare I say with our own boat.
I’m doing dinghy training in Greenwich ahead of our plans to do Comp Crew later this summer. My question is, should we opt for the Med (which is our preferred from a holiday perspective) or choose somewhere like Gib to include tidal certs too?
We would, all being well plan to do the Day Skipper course later so could we include tidal with it then?
Penny for your thoughts!

 

[mrangry]

I wouldn't bother with comp crew and just do day skipper theory followed by practical. I would also choose to do it in a tidal area, there are many around the uk

 

[Hacker]

No differentiation between tidal and non-tidal Day Skipper any more. If you’ve done the theory certificate then don’t bother with Comp Crew. If not then you are unlikely to have enough theoretical knowledge to pass Day Skipper practical. We did Comp Crew in Gibraltar with @capnsensible, when he had a sailing school there, very enjoyable. I then did my Day Skipper on the Solent as I wanted to do it in UK waters and tides.

 

[capnsensible]

I wouldn't bother with comp crew and just do day skipper theory followed by practical. I would also choose to do it in a tidal area, there are many around the uk

Why do you recommend people 'skip' competent crew? It's a great foundation course to understand a bit about yachts.....and see if you like it.

Sometimes, I think, people forget the first time they went out on a yacht?

 

[SarHud]

Thank you for your replies! We would like to do the Comp Crew before Day Skipper. Happy to spend the time and money (within reason) so that we (I) feel confident and enjoy it rather than winging it so to speak. We have a friend who we can sail out of Hamble with regularly so will have experience in UK waters there.

I suppose what I’m asking is… is there any benefit to doing Comp Crew with tidal cert before the Day Skipper course, or is it fine to wait to gain tidal experience /cert with Day Skipper later?

 

[SarHud]

Thank you for your replies! We would like to do the Comp Crew before Day Skipper. Happy to spend the time and money (within reason) so that we (I) feel confident and enjoy it rather than winging it so to speak. We have a friend who we can sail out of Hamble with regularly so will have experience in UK waters there.

I suppose what I’m asking is… is there any benefit to doing Comp Crew with tidal cert before the Day Skipper course, or is it fine to wait to gain tidal experience /cert with Day Skipper later?

 

[ylop]

Why do you recommend people 'skip' competent crew? It's a great foundation course to understand a bit about yachts.....and see if you like it.

Sometimes, I think, people forget the first time they went out on a yacht?

Quite. I think its a bit crazy to suggest that newbies skip CC. Doing DS Theory and getting on a Yacht to sail it for the first time - you'd never have steered a yacht, you'd never have used a winch, you'd never have actual used a windlass. Now you are expected to not only do all those things, but to oversee other people doing them. Of course you could build up that experience without lining the pockets of one of these fat cat sailing instructors ;-) but you will be learning the bad habits of your friend, and will probably take a lot longer to achieve the necessary experience of all the topics than 5 days afloat.

IMHO Comp Crew is where people learn to sail and Day Skipper is where they learn to look after other people. You can learn the physics of sailing on dinghies, indeed they may be better for feeling the wind and really understanding sail trim etc - and an experienced dinghy sailor probably can skip CC as they will bring so much prior knowledge BUT thats not the OP's position:

he’s been out as a helping hand a few times

I’m doing dinghy training in Greenwich

I suppose what I’m asking is… is there any benefit to doing Comp Crew with tidal cert before the Day Skipper course, or is it fine to wait to gain tidal experience /cert with Day Skipper later?

OK so I think Hacker is right ^^^ that the RYA have stopped making the tidal/non-tidal distinction on their yachting courses (can't remember if its still there for dinghies and powerboats?). In reality for Comp Crew there isn't going to be much practical difference between tidal/non-tidal (someone will point out that with 8 knots of tide in the Cuan sound you certainly need to take it into account - but (a) the skipper should have planned for that (b) even schools that had "tidal" endorsements didn't take newbies through their at max rate!).

A lot of the tide stuff is theory related - knowing how to make sure there will be enough water, knowing how to plan for the current. Anything you miss out on by not doing CC with a challenging tide will be made up for in DS Theory. My only warning will be if you do CC in the med and then come back to sailing in the UK it may be a lot colder and wetter!

 

[smert]

You can do your CC or DS course in the Canaries and get the weather and the tides. Granted the tides are minimal but it's still 'tidal'.

 

[dunedin]

Tides are only one small part of sailing.
Enjoy your Comp Crew holiday in the Med. You can learn about tides later (or read a book on the plane)

And before somebody complains, I have sailed the Pentland Firth, Corryvreckan, Morbihan etc which have a few tides - but had a bit more experience before doing them.

 

[CrossedThreads]

I had lots of experience sailing dinghys (ies?) before doing my competent crew and day skipper courses. As has been said above, there is no distinction between tidal and non tidal and the tidal theory is taught even if you don’t experience tides on the practical courses.
I think, as you are planning, doing both courses is really valuable. I spent my comp crew week doing lots of the “manual” bits of sailing a yacht which I’d never done before (no winch or windlass on a dinghy!) and once all that was dialled in, could focus on the skipper stuff whilst others did all the hard work.
Having dinghy experienced definitely helped (and still does) with the sail trimming etc.
Your plan sounds well thought out. And, as it happens I did both comp crew and day skipper in the med and now sail the east coast. The real possibility of running aground certainly focusses the mind on tides so all your theory knowledge will come flooding back once the water is shallower and the tides are bigger.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I'd definately do the tidal version if still on offer. I've been loafing around in the med for years where there is no tide to speak of, and then I took some friends to Scotland for a whisky tour from Mull down to Islay and back. Our trip took us through the Sound of Islay and the Cuan Sound. I was grateful for the tidal knowledge even if it was a bit rusty.

 

[dunedin]

I'd definately do the tidal version if still on offer. I've been loafing around in the med for years where there is no tide to speak of, and then I took some friends to Scotland for a whisky tour from Mull down to Islay and back. Our trip took us through the Sound of Islay and the Cuan Sound. I was grateful for the tidal knowledge even if it was a bit rusty.

But Sound of Islay and Cuan Sound are some of the most severe tides in the UK - and few would attempt to go there as skipper in their first stages of learning. More at Yachtmaster than Competent Crew stage.
Plus always need to read the pilot books (Clyde Cruising Club Sailing Directions in these cases) which explain the tides for these specific bits of water.
Don’t need to learn advanced spinnaker handling or lee bow effects on a first / introductory sailing course - nor do you need tidal stuff on the first course.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

But Sound of Islay and Cuan Sound are some of the most severe tides in the UK - and few would attempt to go there as skipper in their first stages of learning. More at Yachtmaster than Competent Crew stage.
Plus always need to read the pilot books (Clyde Cruising Club Sailing Directions in these cases) which explain the tides for these specific bits of water.
Don’t need to learn advanced spinnaker handling or lee bow effects on a first / introductory sailing course - nor do you need tidal stuff on the first course.

They are, it's where I grew up - and the West Coast is a fantastic cruising ground. I'm just saying if there is a choice, tidal or non- tidal, then it won't hurt to take the tidal option.

 

[st599]

What would be different between a tidal and non-tidal Comp Crew? Surely the skipper deals with tides.

Go somewhere it will be fun, with some sea breezes. For day skipper, definitely tidal if you plan to ever sail in the UK or Northern Europe.

 

[SarHud]

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. Exactly the knowledge and insight we were after.
We have decided to Comp Crew in the Med and will join a friend in Hamble for a few outings later in the summer too.
All being well, we’ll DS in UK (or Gib if we need some sun) next year.

Thank you all again.

 

[xyachtdave]

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. Exactly the knowledge and insight we were after.
We have decided to Comp Crew in the Med and will join a friend in Hamble for a few outings later in the summer too.
All being well, we’ll DS in UK (or Gib if we need some sun) next year.

Thank you all again.

Good move. Added bonus is no pressure on either of you as assumed experience is zero.

Nothing worse than being on a school boat with someone that's skipped the basics and is doing a course way beyond their experience level.

In an ideal world you'd learn from the other crew members as well as the skipper, rather than watch them struggle to tie warps and fenders on.

Hope it goes well!

 

[Daedelus]

Good decision. Mrs D decided on comp crew although I told her that she was good enough to do DS. Anyway, she went on an all girl crew boat (one of the others had insisted saying that men tended to hog the instruction, and this can happen). She had a whale of a time with 3 other girls/women. Two of the girls were young and gorgeous and Mrs D reported that the instructor who was male and had the quarter berth had a problem. It wasn't that he didn't know where to look, he knew exactly where to look, he just didn't want to be caught doing it.
He was clearly used to all male crews and protested miserably (Aaaww, guys) when sent ashore with a shopping list for fresh fruit and vegetables.
However, the girls all liked him and he instructed well and she came home with a good set of stories and with real confidence when next we went out.

 

[TSB240]

I get the feeling you have chosen to do CC to start with. May I suggest that if you continue to Day skipper and want to gain practical knowledge dealing with tides then your best choice for doing this is in North Wales. Sailing around this area is all about using the tides, avoiding tidal gates and overfalls, planning harbour and marina access to the state of tide. In my view as a totally uncertified sailor this is one of the most important skills to develop at an early stage.

 

[SarHud]

I get the feeling you have chosen to do CC to start with. May I suggest that if you continue to Day skipper and want to gain practical knowledge dealing with tides then your best choice for doing this is in North Wales. Sailing around this area is all about using the tides, avoiding tidal gates and overfalls, planning harbour and marina access to the state of tide. In my view as a totally uncertified sailor this is one of the most important skills to develop at an early stage.

Thank you! We will definitely keep this in mind for the DS. It makes sense to have sound knowledge of UK tides as that is where we plan to sail from most regularly in the years to come.

Again - really appreciate the input from the community here.

Looking forward to the dinghy next month to get started!

 

[Hjem]

First off, getting to grips with the dinghies is an absolutely brilliant way to get into sailing. With no engine, you have to rely entirely on the sails to get from A to B, so you'll build up excellent wind awareness and competence in sail trim. These skills will put you in fantastic stead for all of your future sailing.

I did all the courses up to coastal skipper and yacht master theory, from CC onwards. At CC level, it's about time on boats and learning about whatever comes, not all of it will stick. I also started with the two dinghy courses before any of this. I totally recommend this as a sound route into sailing. Last year my wife and I bought our first boat and sailed 1600 NM round the UK and we're now in France sailing down to Gibraltar, so it is doable. We blogged it all, if you search for Sailing Hjem on YouTube.

Tides have been talked about as a small part of sailing on this thread, but in reality they are a massive part of it. But with an almanac and some decision making, they aren't rocket science. I would... Just go sailing as much as you can in these early days!