Tidal… Comp Crew or Day Skipper?

mrangry

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Why do you recommend people 'skip' competent crew? It's a great foundation course to understand a bit about yachts.....and see if you like it.

Sometimes, I think, people forget the first time they went out on a yacht?
Because the op states that her husband has already had a few sailing trips aboard and she is currently doing a dinghy sailing course. The day skipper syllabus already covers the basics in my opinion and just feel that sailing schools use comp crew students to make numbers up to generate income.
 

Martin&Rene

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You have had a pile of good advice, so go with both courses. You definitely seem to have taken on the idea that if you want to enjoy sailing as a couple, you both need be be fully involved. On our yacht we have certain specialisations. I handle the gusty upwind legs and my wife does all the marina berthing, with me doing the stepping ashore with lines. She disappoints onlookers, by not getting it wrong like they had expected.
 

ylop

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if you continue to Day skipper and want to gain practical knowledge dealing with tides then your best choice for doing this is in North Wales. Sailing around this area is all about using the tides, avoiding tidal gates and overfalls, planning harbour and marina access to the state of tide.
Everyone probably thinks their area has some particular quirks or skills that make it the ideal place to do DS! IF the OP actually thinks they will be most likely to be chartering in the Med then a lot of that would be irrelevant (but is covered on DS Theory wherever you do it), but experience at med mooring with slime lines would be useful, and the skippers challenge might be as much about shade and ventilation rather than waterproofs!
Because the op states that her husband has already had a few sailing trips aboard and she is currently doing a dinghy sailing course. The day skipper syllabus already covers the basics in my opinion
But it doesn’t - it essentially assumes you’ve done CC
and just feel that sailing schools use comp crew students to make numbers up to generate income.
I’m sure some schools might do that - shop carefully for your school is better advice than just miss that stage out.
She disappoints onlookers, by not getting it wrong like they had expected.
I think that doing it together is a great bit of advice. Too many couples have a skipper and an assistant, often with lots of shouting!
 

capnsensible

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Because the op states that her husband has already had a few sailing trips aboard and she is currently doing a dinghy sailing course. The day skipper syllabus already covers the basics in my opinion and just feel that sailing schools use comp crew students to make numbers up to generate income.
Mmm, just wondering, how many times have you taught either course? Have you looked at the course modules for both Iin the RYA cruising logbook?
 

SarHud

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You have had a pile of good advice, so go with both courses. You definitely seem to have taken on the idea that if you want to enjoy sailing as a couple, you both need be be fully involved. On our yacht we have certain specialisations. I handle the gusty upwind legs and my wife does all the marina berthing, with me doing the stepping ashore with lines. She disappoints onlookers, by not getting it wrong like they had expected.
That is wonderful advice to take onboard! Thank you. And love disappointed onlookers :)
 

capnsensible

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Sorry my opinion differs from some others but hey ho thats life i suppose
Yes, understand that. But anyone who has worked in the sail training business will generally try and help people through their misconceptions. The competent crew/ day skipper thing is one of them regularly aired.

The courses are quite different, but it's entirely reasonable and achievable to teach a mixed course. Making up numbers is another misconception. Generally, enquiries to a Recgnised Training Centre will answer these questions and match up the customers requirements and dates to berths available. It's what you are paying for!
 

B27

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I did a mixed course.
It's sometimes better to have 2 crew and 3 trainee skippers than 5 wannabe skippers.

At the end of the day, a good instructor can make various things work.

As for 'tidal' don't forget it's not just tidal heights and big vectors on passage legs, it's also current in the harbour when tying up and casting off.
 

SarHud

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Tides have been talked about as a small part of sailing on this thread, but in reality they are a massive part of it.

Yes, I’ve come to see that based on all of the helpful responses. Feeling more sure than ever that for us, (people who like to know the ins and outs of just about everything) comprehensive course coverage and lots of varied experience will be key. Your YouTube video, episode 2, Maiden Voyage really is a great reminder of the importance of training, retraining and leaning in on the resources/people around you.
Cheers for sharing.
 

Hjem

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Really couldn't agree more, thank you. The great thing is that you understand how you and your partner learn most effectively and you're going with it! Sailors are about the most helpful and enthusiastic people going and the rate of knowledge transfer is high so your approach sounds spot on, best of luck with it!
 

laika

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Mmm, just wondering, how many times have you taught either course? Have you looked at the course modules for both Iin the RYA cruising logbook?
I think people do DS without CC "because they can" and it's seen as "more advanced" and comes with a piece of paper which has some practical value for chartering. This is perhaps the problem of advertising the RYA training as a "ladder". People think that if they jump on at a higher rung the lower ones are covered.

This of course misses the fact that DS is not "more advanced" as such, it's teaching a different skillset, and without CC skills you're not going to be an especially good practical sailor even if you did pass DS.

Having said that maybe you're a great teacher and so are all your mates but this overlooks the fact that there are many *bad* teachers out there. I used to recommend people skip CC because it was useless until I read the RYA syllabus and realised that my CC instructor had signed me off for stuff I'd never been taught and didn't even know I was supposed to know. The RYA CC syllabus *is* really good and very valuable but I wonder how often instructors at schools cramming 5 students (YM/DS/CC) onto a boat just use CC students as rope pullers without actually teaching the full syllabus
 

Dellquay13

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I did a mixed course.
It's sometimes better to have 2 crew and 3 trainee skippers than 5 wannabe skippers.

At the end of the day, a good instructor can make various things work.

As for 'tidal' don't forget it's not just tidal heights and big vectors on passage legs, it's also current in the harbour when tying up and casting off.
I did my YM Coastal Skipper 5 day course on a boat with 3 other CS students. It really wasn’t a good idea, we had to pair up in 2s to do everything or we wouldn’t have gotten through the syllabus 4 times each doing it separately.

1 or 2 CS and the rest CC would have been much better, but I guess the only people crazy enough to do 5 days in Kent in early February were people wanting experience of hard conditions to CS standard.
We did more sailing hours in the dark than in the daylight.
 
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Skylark

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Many interesting comments and sharing of individual views and opinions.

I fell into sail training, by happenstance, after early retirement from a real job. I’ve now been doing occasional freelance work for 8 seasons, now as a YMI.

The RYA Cruising Scheme logbook is invaluable as it shows course syllabus and levels of competence required for each skill. My favourite course to teach is CC. At one time or another, everyone aboard a boat is “crew” so having a good grounding in the basics is pretty essential.

A lot of people enrol on a DS course and it’s clear that they have gaps in the knowledge that they are assumed to have. It’s worth keeping in mind that not everyone leaves with the course completion certificate at the end of the week.

My favourite water for delivering these course is The Solent. I wouldn’t dream of keeping my own boat there but for teaching it is second to none. It’s tidal, it has shallows, it has a large commercial port, a large military port, a lot of buoyage, a lot of traffic and many locations to practice day and nighttime pilotage.

What I’ve learned is that “the more the student puts into the course, the more they will get out of it”. Students should also remember to pack a sense of humour and an open mind.
 

SarHud

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My favourite water for delivering these course is The Solent. I wouldn’t dream of keeping my own boat there but for teaching it is second to none. It’s tidal, it has shallows, it has a large commercial port, a large military port, a lot of buoyage, a lot of traffic and many locations to practice day and nighttime pilotage.
Really pleased we will gain lots of experience there from Hamble. Sounds like when the time is right we’ll have lots of UK spots to choose from for the DS.

Out of interest, where would you keep your own boat? Aware that’s probably a thread on it own!
 

Skylark

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Out of interest, where would you keep your own boat? Aware that’s probably a thread on it own!
I live within Greater Manchester. North Wales/Angelsey is my favourite water but I, like many, was made homeless by Storm Emma as it destroyed my marina. I now berth on The Clyde but had to sign the official secrets act and promise not tell everyone how good it is 😁
 

SarHud

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For most people that somewhat depends on where you live :)

As well as a good many other factors I would imagine 😊 My husband and I are both from different parts of the country, currently living in London but have a young family. The move out is imminent but we find ourselves drawn to different coasts.
 

ylop

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The courses are quite different, but it's entirely reasonable and achievable to teach a mixed course. Making up numbers is another misconception.
In fact I'd say it might actually be preferable. A boat full of experienced people all trying to do things their own way is a nightmare to demonstrate your new found skippering skills in! Imagine booking on a 5 day DS course with 4 others and only actually skippering 1 day and pretending to be crew for the rest!
he RYA CC syllabus *is* really good and very valuable but I wonder how often instructors at schools cramming 5 students (YM/DS/CC) onto a boat just use CC students as rope pullers without actually teaching the full syllabus
Presumably not schools that want to generate return customers by word of mouth or be widely regarded as good by their neighbouring schools (who must get some of those CC holders coming to do DS courses?). It certainly wasn't my experience.
 

Graham376

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Lots of different ways of doing it. Starting from scratch, I did comp crew in the Solent with Hamble School of Yachting, bought a Centaur and then did own boat tuition, again with Hamble. Did DS theory at night school during winter and DS practical during delivery trip (just instructor and me) from Hamble to Conwy. Didn't feel confident in instructing my wife (blind leading the blind) so got an instructor on board for a weekend. After a year or more, she went down to Hamble and did DS practical, we both did coastal skipper theory at night school.

P.S. having sailed N Wales for many years, I would still do courses in Solent as less likely to be restricted by bad weather sea state.
 
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