Thoughts & Opinions please

[beancounter]

We are boatless at present, but that will be altered in due course. It's the "in due course" that I'd like your thoughts on...

The Background
Over dinner a few weeks ago, the Memsahib suddenly said "why can't WE have a gap year?" (prompted by our daughter's recent african safari). Quicker than you can say "Sell up and Sail" I replied that we could - let the house out, and do some long term cruising (Med/Baltic/French canals or such) for 2 - 3 years. This would need to be a few years hence (cerca 5) to allow the beancounterette to clear uni, and other financial matters to be sorted out. To my amazement the Memsahib was instantly enthusiastic. This enthusiasm has deepened following a two week cruise in the eastern Baltic.

The Question
My thoughts had been that we would look for a small-ish (say 24 - 26ft) to hone our skills on for say 3 years, then buy a larger boat for The Adventure. Perusing this forum, the wisdom seems to be to have the cruising boat for 1 -2 years before setting off, to allow for familiarisation and customisation. This fits in with the timetable. However, the Memsahib has stated firmly that she doesn't want to go through the hassle of boat buying twice. I've countered with the oft quoted view that you are unlikely to get the right boat first time. Stalemate.

So I can see three alternatives;

a) Defer boat purchase for c3 years, then go for The Boat. Use the intervening time to view/cadge lifts on as many boats as possible.
b) Go for The Boat straight away.
c) Hold out for my original plan.

What does the team think?

John

<hr width=100% size=1>Fabricati Diem, punc

 

[snowleopard]

middle of the road option- spend what would have been the running costs for the first year or two on getting a wide spread of experience in different boats. charter, cadge crew slots etc, then go for the final boat.

there are plenty of people like me who often want crew or are prepared to take extra bods. give it a try.

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[AndrewB]

I liked your original plan, small one to practice on, get the real one about a year before you go.

Its selling, not buying, a yacht that is a hassle. Point out you only have to do that once. The small one needs to be a high demand type that'll shift easily.

If SWMBO is not to be moved, go with plan (a) but you shouldn't need to wait 3 years if you can build up the experience of different boats quickly. Chartering has the advantage over cadging lifts that you would get better 'honing your skills' opportunities as skipper. Though one thing you wouldn't pick up this way are maintenance skills - and the value of a yacht that is easy to maintain.

 

[mainshiptom]

Option B every time !

The amount of people that I meet that would retire and then cruise the world ! Get as far as the first port and give up !

I say iff you have a plan take action NOW !

Rent the house get the boat and start living on board NOW!

Dreams are good if you have no restiction on time age and health !

You can plan tommrow but things do change, while you live on board you learn a lot about yourself and about the boat, you can take the boat out for short trips and very soon will learn about which spares to carry what costs are going to be like? are we happy on board?


just do it !

Tom

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[ChrisE]

The Enstone's did exactly what you are proposing, ten years ago the difference being that at the time neither of us had sailed before. You don't say whether you have owned a boat before and I'm assuming you haven't.

We did the RYA practical and theoretical courses to gain the experience including a sailing school trip across the Bay of Biscay. I disagree with going on other peoples boats. The other people might have been sailing a long time but in my experience length of time sailing does not necessarily equate to good knowledge. The courses are at least structured to give you the range of experience, applying to it your own boat takes time but at least you are starting from an agreed standard rather than picking up other people's bad practice.

Then do your research and buy the boat, we thought about starting small and going up and in the end decided that what we needed was experience in the boat we were going use rather than in another smaller one. The first three months of ownership were an extermely steep learning curve but with the basic skills from the courses we were confident enough to sail it on our own from day one and cautious (or is that scared) enough not to put ourselves or anyone else in serious danger.

Eighteen months after we bought the boat we took the year off and sailed to Brazil and back. I'm sure that with both of you onside you could do the same. You are as fortunate as me in that your partner is enthustistic about the project, I'm sure that neither of us would have been able to do it without the support of the other.

I wish you the best of luck, we thoroughly enjoyed our gap year.

Chris

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[robind]

The following is my opinion and that alone. I would buy the best and biggest boat that you can practically afford! So ,many cruisers have wished that they had gone a little larger. If you have no practical experience then sailing is no big deal! given a couple of months, a comprehensive library and the will to do it you will be OK. Pick a beamy well built boat with good accomodation large cabins and ensuite shower/WCs , room for a washing machine and dryer and swimbo will be happy.
Best of luck
Rob

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[AndrewB]

(nm)

 

[bedouin]

I think it depends (a) how sure you are what you want "The" boat to be and (b) how big "The" boat will be.

If the answer to (a) is "Pretty Sure" and the answer to (b) is "Not too big" then you could consider going for the boat immediately - if not then definitely get a smaller/cheaper one first.

If you go for the smaller boat first choose it with care. Go for a popular model in good condition - it may cost you more up front but you will have little to spend on it and show be able to sell it on more easily for the same price you paid for it.

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[BigART]

(c) which is pretty much what we have done. As already stated by others, there is nothing like having to run/maintain/skipper your own boat to learn quickly and form your own opinions on what you want. We bought a Westerly Merlin as our training boat about three years ago and had a wonderful time without all the huge costs of running a big boat on the south coast. During this time, our opinions on what we wanted changed and crystallised considerably.

The purchasing and selling all went smoothly (mostly) having done our homework, it really wasn't that bad and we sold the first boat ourselves. Purchasing the big one was complicated by buying off a Belgian couple in Spain but we got there. We now have our big red steel cutter and are ready for the 'off' next Spring. Please feel free to PM me (during weekdays) to chat further.

Angus

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[pragmatist]

Depends on your finances - could you afford to go tomorrow or do you need to wait 3 years ?

Owning and maintaining a boat is a big issue and I think it's far more important than sailing with other people. It's your money and responsibility - makes you think more and enjoy it more than swanning along with others.

I like your plan of start small, learn what you both like and don't like - then you can splash out on the dream boat.

<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is an optimist with a boat in the UK

 

[charles_reed]

You don\'t know what you don\'t know

so you need to find out what YOU and wife are looking for in a boat.

The two routes to finding this out are to sail in someone elses' boat (charter, sailing school or crewing) or to have your own boat.

I personally went for the latter course - but it's most probable that you won't get it right 1st time, so your wife's idea of making 1 purchase is unfeasible.

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[beancounter]

Hi Tom,

Nice one! However, my professional background (I'm an accountant) doesn't school one in making impetuous decisions

Seriously, there are family, money and career matters to resolve in the next little while that, if left dangling, would detract from the enjoyment of the project. To my mind, nagging doubts can grow bigger and more troublesome if far from home - I wouldn't want to spoil things for an ounce of patience.

thanks anyway - a positive attitude is important!

John

<hr width=100% size=1>Fabricati Diem, punc

 

[Sunnyseeker]

buying two boats costs quite a wedge, 8% agent fees worth considering and to selkl quickly easily it needs to be accessible so your paying marina fees until shes sold...some boats can take a long time to sell.
We did the gap year and a bit thing 2002. Had money, found boat (3-4weeks) , took her out of the water to sort a few mods for cruising and checking her out thoroughly (2 weeks) in the marine as its easier to load up all that gear and toys (1week) and off we went, somewhere in ther we rented the house. From money in pocket to leaving = 6-7 weeks. First stop Falmouth, then Spain Canaries the rest is history and jolly glad we went when we could as things can change so quickly. 10,000 miles later we're back home. Too many people delay and something happens and the regrets start. If you treat the boat well it will look after you.
Good luck but definately (b)

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[mikewilkes]

If you can persuade beancounterette to stay in halls or get a flat then you could go now!!!!

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[chockswahay]

Hi John, I'm with Chris Enstone and Sunnyseeker on this one.

We (me and SWMBO) had exactly the same conversation a year ago and next week we take delivery of our boat.

I have found this forum really useful and a wealth of information, there are many people out there only too willing to help.

From our personal point of view, we went with option (B). We considered buying something smaller but felt that this would cramp our style very quickly and quite possibly put us off for good. We did the Day Skippers course (very usefull) and finally decided to bypass the grief of buying and selling etc and go for 'the one' straight away.

We are both quite tall and found many boats under 38 ft too small and lacking headroom and the berths too short. Ultimately we have ended up with a heavy displacement 44 ft ketch.

I was 'laid off' a few weeks ago and actually this was the final push needed to commit to the project. We will be re-fitting the boat over winter and 'setting sail' next summer.

It is true that there are 'those that dream' and 'those that do'. The hardest part is deciding which category you are in!

I do not really feel qualified to offer you advice as I am first time to this myself, however I would suggest that you research as much as possible and try and avoid being rushed (life is too short maybe, but you wake up tomorrow and there's another day left!).

Either way good luck with the whole thing, if you wish to send me a P.M please feel free.

Cheers

Ghox

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[Bejasus]

I am going for option C, as I still have one to get into uni. She is 17 at the moment but we are also planning a 5 year adventure to the med in a couple of years. Also still have financials to sort out, but we are starting sailing lessons in October in preparation for 2 years time. also we've looked at plenty of boats and have pretty much decided on what we want, so are now trying to put it all together.

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[beancounter]

thanks for all the input guys & gals, and the kind offers of PM help etc - we may well follow that up.
As I expected, a range of views . The balance seems to be tipping in my good lady's favour; going for the larger boat as soon as is practical. We're hopefully off to Southampton in September, to squeeze in some used boat viewing as well as SIBS.
This may help to crystalise the ideas forming at present, which are along the lines of something 30 - 35 feet, a good beam, and not too deep a keel (I'd like to "do" the French Canals). Our budget is a bit vague at present, but will become firmer in the next few months.
I'm getting excited just typing this!
Oh well, back to work.

Thanks again

John (& Ruth!)


<hr width=100% size=1>Fabricati Diem, punc

 

[tcm]

i'm with robind and chris enstone (i think) - get a useable boat in the same way as you get a house IF houses depreciated - as boats do. Trading in a boat costs a lot of money, and i would want at least a year mebbe two before setting off on a siginificant trip, simply to know the mad things that the boats does, but that ones should/shouldn't worry about. This includes handling as well as weird electrical and other behaviour. So, get a big one, much easier to handle though it doesn't look like it. 45 foot should do it.

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[PeterStone]

My wife and I set off last year, bound for the Med, via the French canals. We have found it to be far more enjoyable than we had envisaged - so much so that we have only recently passed the half way point. There is the added attraction of meeting kindred spirits, some of whom crop up repeatedly according to your respective paces; it can be very convivial. It certainly provides a relatively stress-free introduction to the liveaboard life.

Draught is a consideration. Ours is 1.6m but we have had few problems. We have seen boats drawing 1.8m navigate but most report touching bottom in places. The main drawback to a draught of more than about 1.5m is getting close enough to the bank to tie up at night. The depth mid stream is usually well above the guaranteed 1.8m on the main routes, unless there is prolonged drought.

My advice is to go as soon as is feasibly possible. Five years is a long time to maintain momentum.






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