THOSE OF US WITH BOATS IN THE MED

[KINGFISHER 9]

I know that May 11th is the lastest date but is that the word on the street?

Alas I haven't been 'out on the street' to hear the word! Just living in hope. No doubt Manu will declare on the 11th that we might like to do another month! At least the marina are checking the boat every day … they say!

 

[Clancy Moped]

2021.

 

[Bouba]

Alas I haven't been 'out on the street' to hear the word! Just living in hope. No doubt Manu will declare on the 11th that we might like to do another month! At least the marina are checking the boat every day … they say!

I’m just a bit worried about the old folks ‘will be expected to make sacrifices’ talk

 

[vas]

I’m just a bit worried about the old folks ‘will be expected to make sacrifices’ talk

will have to wait and see, but it seems that there's a consensus on that older ppl will stay in quarantine. will have to wait and see how they define "old" and how they're going to police it (if at all)
the other thing circulating a lot on the local media here is this bull on health passport which will be impossible to impose incapable of issuing and a tad pointless once you go somewhere where the locals don't have it.
Will be fun seeing ppl with PPE and swimsuits. Not to mention how do you fit that when snorkelling
the most annoying though is the increasing talk on 'lets forget summer 2020 and stay safe'

V.

 

[MapisM]

Will be fun seeing ppl with PPE and swimsuits. Not to mention how do you fit that when snorkelling

Interestingly, I've yet to understand if there is any chance to get the infection by swimming in the same waters where someone else infected swam earlier.
If anyone knows better, I'm all ears.

 

[Hurricane]

At the risk of being controversial, it seems to me that the biggest issue those of us in the UK have is what appears to be a total lack of leadership from government. To say there has been some fudging of the truth (PPE) or promises made (100,000 tests by end April) that were not based on much other than a hope, is an understatement. It is not easy running anything in a pandemic and so I am loathe to be overcritical and give some benefit of the doubt, but our reaction can only be judged against the leadership of other countries. In the UK today we have absolutely no clue whether we will be locked up for another three months or whether we will be slowly allowed out and how This lack of any clarity is likely to cause other countries to wonder whether they even want Brits roaming around their own countries this summer. The only shred of upside `I see is the growing debate and hopefully realisation that the economic damage being done will likely soon approach the point of no return and the misery and deaths caused by economic collapse may outstrip those from this virus. I suspect that at some point people will realise that they face a stark choice and if this happens public opinion will start to change and with it government response. The bottom line IMHO is that this virus is here to stay at least for a while. It is not going away and it is not so prevalent within society - perhaps in Sweden only - that meaningful herd immunity exists now. What this means is that we are going to have to work out how we co exit with this virus for a while. If we choose to lock ourselves up we may have nothing to emerge into so this is not going to be an option in a rational world. But then again we do not live in a rational world now. I would conclude that boats will be being used in July and August. just not by Brits!!

You make it sound like it is the government's fault and that we are all just following the rules made upon us.
And you aren't the only person that sees this as "rules/laws" and not just "common sense".
Have you actually thought what it might be like if you caught the dam virus?

I spent three of the lock down weeks on my boat keeping away from everything.
The only time that we left the marina was to come home.
Since then, I have kept myself isolated.
I stay in the confines of my house and garden.
Not because I have to - it is just that I don't want to catch the virus.

 

[Portofino]

I’m just a bit worried about the old folks ‘will be expected to make sacrifices’ talk

You can’t cheat biology so I,am not playing the blame game ....there’s an inevitability to all this along theses lines .......
You either are gonna end up in one of theses two groups
1- a survivor
2- vaccinated.
To get the highest number to survive you need healthcare capacity to deal with those who need hospitalisation . The lockdowns and any slow release strategy is management of this capacity.

Vaccination is a unknown area with C19 ....it’s weakness is previous covid virus ( the “ normal flue ) past history of mutation rendering what was a seemingly good vaccine pretty useless in a short time .

Eventually a certain Immunity will come through much as it does with any other contagion.

Normal flue wipes out the old and vulnerable in about 1/2 the numbers of C19 .

So if we start to see the daily death rate from C19 to drop to say around 100 that’s 36,000 pa in each of the major Med boaty countries..
Or if you like 1/2 that to 18,000 pa in U.K. , + Spain , + France + Italy.

I,mean 50 now feels like a result = lift restrictions etc away we go .....but no who’s gonna want to deliberately seek a crowded place ....airports , car hire , pubs restaurants , hotels , bars , cinemas etc etc .
Obviously 50-100 is a better number than 500-900 + in each country .

Will it be it’s low because of Darwinism .....with time it wipes out as said the vulnerable inc elderly?


Sorry that’s the stark I reality I see .

It’s gonna be with us for a while in Europe and we can’t return to what we had before .

The alternative was total + severe lockdown, like in totalitarian states ( who can enforce) but we haven’t chosen that route .

Testing
Not much use in the long term imho
Firstly it’s not a screen with a binary result .
For the virus ....you may be -ve on the Monday it was done then by Wednesday have the virus , picked it up , contracted it from the first contact after arriving @ your boat .
Or +ve and asymptomatic ( but a carrier ) on the Monday then by Friday a repeat test shows a -ve due to testing errors or a real - ve because it was a false +ve earlier.

Then which strain ? Is the test now out of date ? Has the virus mutated away from the test sufficiently to not record a+ve ? False -ve s will fuel the spread as you think you are safe in social contact situations.


For the Antibody
So what it’s +ve you think you will Ok from now on ......until a new mutated strain of virus pops up .......or it’s short lived fades away by the end of the year .
So you potentially get reinfected by the original virus or likely it’s mutated siblings .

So I don’t understand why the public think testing is so important.Its useful for epidemiologist in terms of playing with data to facilitate gov decision at a particular point in time buts that’s all .

Assume as said
You will be a survivor or vaccinated albeit in my view temporarily, based in previous corvid viruses .
What status you thought you where in before ending up in one of those two groups is irrelevant.

But testing zero use in terms of personal protection going Fwds .

 

[Portofino]

Interestingly, I've yet to understand if there is any chance to get the infection by swimming in the same waters where someone else infected swam earlier.
If anyone knows better, I'm all ears.

In the general scheme of transmission risk low , very low .
How ever choose a place not crowded , and anchor up wind .
Up wind on the airborne droplet vector of contagiousness .

 

[Portofino]

Time for a bit more anchor chain

He who’s further out survives the longest .

 

[vas]

Time for a bit more anchor chain

He who’s further out survives the longest .

but has longer to swim if he/she HAS to get to the beach (talking about teen kids...)
what about this thing of finding covid in urban waste (that I assume after treatment go to sea) Is seawater going to be wiping the covid out or be a nutrient/medium for it to move onto fish?
And what about fishing or swimming in crowded places, or small isles that have no high quality waste treatment?

and a few more Qs I can think of. Good thing is that I have a few isles/anchorages in mind that even in August there's going to be less than 3boats in a few hundred meters of coastline. Looks like I'll be heading for that if/when we are allowed to use our boats...

V.

 

[Bouba]

but has longer to swim if he/she HAS to get to the beach (talking about teen kids...)
what about this thing of finding covid in urban waste (that I assume after treatment go to sea) Is seawater going to be wiping the covid out or be a nutrient/medium for it to move onto fish?
And what about fishing or swimming in crowded places, or small isles that have no high quality waste treatment?

and a few more Qs I can think of. Good thing is that I have a few isles/anchorages in mind that even in August there's going to be less than 3boats in a few hundred meters of coastline. Looks like I'll be heading for that if/when we are allowed to use our boats...

V.

Does anyone know of any secret anchorages on the Côte d’Azur?

 

[John100156]

We would be driving anyhow so it’s as I earlier mentioned it’s down to x border co operation inside the European block .
Switzerland today shaking a Brussels tree asking for a unified release , kinda synchronised with the sates surrounding them .

Not sure I would to be anywhere near a crowd gathering place voluntarily like an airport this year particularity as we come out of lockdown........

Yes that's my thinking, book Chunnel early to avoid disappointment, assuming we can also get through France/Spain border (reminder to self, get an IDP from the Post Office for France, as you only have one for Spain).

Difficult to avoid crowds at airports and my concern would be the ventilation systems on the plane, although I believe they have HEPA filters installed, which are very high resistance but can filter down to the lower end of the micron scale below (we use them all the time for Biological Safety Cabinets and to CL3 labs), does anyone know if this is the case with plane ventilation??????



Viruses may be minute but boy are they effective, or perhaps that should read infective....;-)

 

[Portofino]

but has longer to swim if he/she HAS to get to the beach (talking about teen kids...)
what about this thing of finding covid in urban waste (that I assume after treatment go to sea) Is seawater going to be wiping the covid out or be a nutrient/medium for it to move onto fish?
And what about fishing or swimming in crowded places, or small isles that have no high quality waste treatment?

and a few more Qs I can think of. Good thing is that I have a few isles/anchorages in mind that even in August there's going to be less than 3boats in a few hundred meters of coastline. Looks like I'll be heading for that if/when we are allowed to use our boats...

V.

Uv on the surface should deal with that .
Just don’t swim too deep Or on cloudy days .
Avoid crustaceans diet wise this summer , handling them before cooking .Just a precaution until the science of effluent transmission is via infected urine + poo ending up untreated in the sea is established.

Hmm ......holding tanks in anchorages ideally they should be policed anyhow but in reality it’s a Med none starter ,
last thing you want is boat load of infected ( a symptomatic ) idiots anchoring over night nearby without a working H tank .....if your area is down stream current wise ....Ugh !

Seen some pretty awful sights in busy Fr anchorages despite the regs

 

[Portofino]

Yes that's my thinking, book Chunnel early to avoid disappointment, assuming we can also get through France/Spain border (reminder to self, get an IDP from the Post Office for France, as you only have one for Spain).

Difficult to avoid crowds at airports and my concern would be the ventilation systems on the plane, although I believe they have HEPA filters installed, which are very high resistance but can filter down to the lower end of the micron scale below (we use them all the time for Biological Safety Cabinets and to CL3 labs), does anyone know if this is the case with plane ventilation??????

View attachment 88879

Viruses may be minute but boy are they effective, or perhaps that should read infective....;-)

I believe planes have nowadays HEPA,s
That’s why I missed off the actual flight .
How ever it’s still a crowded place even with intermittent seating plans. A sneeze can travel a few rows .More so with everybody running there fan in some inane attempt to move the air about ......Nah !
How do you move about inside without touching .....unless you are a tight rope artist , then with the materials mostly fabric + leather how are theses gonna be decontaminated?? .....Answer they not !

Secondary maintenance regime of the HEPA ,s ...... bet most have still got the OEM filters they left the factories with .
Well we had Bog roll now PPE next when flying resumes will be theses filters ....a WW shortage when airlines are challenged to do it properly.

 

[Portofino]

Reminds me a cross infection study investigating contact transmission only .
Remember this C19 is contact and airborne , airborne being the hardest to mitigate out side social distancing.
Class room of under 11 s ...32 in all one teacher .
A 1 cm patch of special UV dye placed on the tip of a nose of one pupil .Others had a placebo
. Each break time ( empty class ) using UV you can see where the dye ended up .
Frightening where it spread , obviously initially first hr around the kid , then teacher , and by close of school everywhere, teacher covered , her desk every kid totally caked in invisible dye when the UV was used to trace .

This is why the lockdown works in reducing transmission.

So I think sat on your boat , not socially mixing any more than a food shop ( you are doing that anyhow in the U.K. ) in my book is little difference from sat in your garden now n lockdown.
Similarly a car journey can be done with relative isolation and not touching much outside your little world....and using hand disinfectant where appropriate.

Also not getting into situations where you are effectively rebreathing some strangers exhaled air .....like going through an airport/ flying etc .

 

[vas]

Reminds me a cross infection study investigating contact transmission only .

PF, do you have any pointers to that research?
Would really like to read and see visuals of spreading in the school spaces

V.

 

[vas]

Hmm ......holding tanks in anchorages ideally they should be policed anyhow but in reality it’s a Med none starter ,
last thing you want is boat load of infected ( a symptomatic ) idiots anchoring over night nearby without a working H tank .....if your area is down stream current wise ....Ugh !

Seen some pretty awful sights in busy Fr anchorages despite the regs

+1

and this is a lovely anchorage to avoid at all costs (usually spend a couple of nights or more each year there-not 2020!)

Google Maps

cheers

V.

 

[KINGFISHER 9]

I’m just a bit worried about the old folks ‘will be expected to make sacrifices’ talk

In his last TV speech he said it was discretionary as to whether us 'old folks' wanted to stay in lockdown. after May 11th. He could, of course, change his little French mind before his next edict! I shudder to think how much weed we've got round the waterline so first job will be RIB off the roof and a little gentle scrub. Not my favourite job but it'll now be a pleasure just doing something boaty ... besides, I usually let the memsahib do the heavy work - just as a special treat you understand! ...

 

[Portofino]

PF, do you have any pointers to that research?
Would really like to read and see visuals of spreading in the school spaces

V.

Sorry Vas not at hand , but there’s plenty of UV contact transmission studies .
Door handles and knobs are notorious.

Theres a suggestion coming through from Holland that it stays active up to 3 hrs on hard surfaces ....worktops etc and takes about 3 hrs ( aerosols already in the air from exhaled ) for them to drop down on a surface ...
So even after a treatment session in a clinical environment with a known active C19 patient .....after you wipe down what you can the virus lingers in the air and drops down to potentially re infecting ( just wiped surfaces ) up to 3 hrs after . It sits there still active that’s the point up to 3 hrs .

As a yard stick think HIV ....it’s quite hard to transmit compared to C19 .
If you spat on a policeman while HIV +ve the virus will be deactivated in the air by the time your spit reached his face .
Thats why you don’t catch HIV out and about normally .....the virus is fragile .
As we know you are safe in social settings with HIV infected people .

C19 appears robust outside its host hence the transmission problem .

 

[John100156]

Reminds me a cross infection study investigating contact transmission only .
Remember this C19 is contact and airborne , airborne being the hardest to mitigate out side social distancing.
Class room of under 11 s ...32 in all one teacher .
A 1 cm patch of special UV dye placed on the tip of a nose of one pupil .Others had a placebo
. Each break time ( empty class ) using UV you can see where the dye ended up .
Frightening where it spread , obviously initially first hr around the kid , then teacher , and by close of school everywhere, teacher covered , her desk every kid totally caked in invisible dye when the UV was used to trace .

This is why the lockdown works in reducing transmission.

So I think sat on your boat , not socially mixing any more than a food shop ( you are doing that anyhow in the U.K. ) in my book is little difference from sat in your garden now n lockdown.
Similarly a car journey can be done with relative isolation and not touching much outside your little world....and using hand disinfectant where appropriate.

Also not getting into situations where you are effectively rebreathing some strangers exhaled air .....like going through an airport/ flying etc .

I agree - its almost certain when we next go out, it will be in our car through the Chunnel.

I expect they recirculate a portion of air on a plane, I have no idea, never researched it, sometimes we also do this in labs containing CII Microbiological Safety Cabinets and in that case, we double HEPA filter before air is released into a lab and to test containment we undertake what is known as a KI Discuss containment test which generates an aerosol in the cabinet and discs are placed outside that detect if any particles escape the aperture.

Any lab HVAC HEPA's are DOP tested creating an aerosol upstream and detecting any particles downstream of the filters, I doubt very much either is undertaken on a plane and that there are any HEPA safe change units.

So for us, until there is an effective vaccine, its the Chunnel....