THOSE OF US WITH BOATS IN THE MED

[Bouba]

Good point but the zinc(s) need the continuity of the sea water to work to complete the electrolytic circuit .Thus irrespective of drain down , partial or complete , planed or otherwise corrosion of cooler components is a real issue because inadvertently the circuit is broken .
When dissimilar metals stop seeing the anodes electrolytic corrosion in starts between themselves. .Take a peak in any big yards engine shed scrap metal skip and its full of corroded coolers , and knackered alloy outdrive leg casings as well .So something’s going on .
Ask yourself why ? Why are theses seemingly anode protected components corroding ?
Ask your self why CAT life there CAC for only 6 years and recommend a change out / replacement in the sense of a throw away part .CAT also suggest in there service manuals every 2 years remove and pressure test the CAC ,s .

How,s the partial ( above the WL ) drain down pencil anodic protection doing there then may I ask ? Why does it not work ?

For the last 10 y or so I have done the annual maintenance of my boats in a yard which has a huge engine shed and there’s usually at least 10+ engine s out dismantled and inside at the end of the building a 2x2x2m wire mesh scrap skip .Believe me corrosion of cooling components that come in contact particularly outer casings is a real issue out there .

I think you are missing the point of little pockets of damp salt water or any volume left behind + the usual dissimilarity of metals are suddenly electrolytically disconnected from the protective zinc(s) process by hoicking the hull on the hard .Dry zincs don’t deplete .But damp / wet dissimilar metals in contact do continue to corroded because they can’t see the zincs.

Think of the rationale behind fresh water flush of jet tenders , jet skis and OB s when out of the sea .Anodic protection is not strong enough after loosing that TOTAL seawater connectivity .Next best thing is to attempt somewhat to loose the stagnant salt solution by the fresh water rinse .

Our boats ( MANs system of a huge transom anode instead of local pencils ) means the zinc is always sufficiently submersed to protect after a shut down and partial drain down of any coolers .How ever the point is engine components that are in contact with seawater inside will suffer if the transom is high n dry like on the hard for any long period of time , and water is present inside components.Unless the whole boat inc inside the coolers is fresh water flushed ( like a jet tender ) and dehumidified buts that’s unlikely.If the zincs can not see the sea to deplete into then you are asking for corrosion trouble .

Pencil anodes
With theses if there’s a lot of drain down for what ever reason leaving the anodes dry , moisture in the trapped air is sufficient to stimulate corrosion between dissimilar components ,facilitated
So on the hard it depends on the lift or ramp angles of the carriage and relative install angles if any cooler pencils become dry .

Just trying to work out who’s providing the scrap metal fodder in the yard and more importantly how .


Counter intuitively the best protection from the zinc(s) is with the boat , OB , jet rib , jet ski left in the water( sitting at the correct incline ) with obviously sufficiently size zincs or what ever anode materials the manufacturers recommend.

So now I have something new to worry about for the next ten days ?

 

[longjohnsilver]

So now I have something new to worry about for the next ten days ?

It only takes 9 days for corrosion to start ?

 

[Bouba]

Everyone is a comedian

 

[MapisM]

Good point but......

So, in a nutshell, you are now recommending the good old BodgeFlow™, regardless of whether the boat is on the hard or in the water.
Glad that you saw the light, eventually!

 

[Portofino]

So, in a nutshell, you are now recommending the good old BodgeFlow™, regardless of whether the boat is on the hard or in the water.
Glad that you saw the light, eventually!

No !
But your appropriately titled fresh water flush based on anecdotal evidence with CAT C32 owners ( pencil anode system+ dissimilar metal problems ) might be beneficial in prolonging the life of the CAC to 6 y without water ingression from a leak .

If your boats on the hard for any length of time other than its routine annual maintenance then really it needs the full Scandinavian treatment well documented in any VP handbook , that is a full flush out with antifreeze which contains corrosion inhibitors to replace any water wether sea or fresh lurking in metal to metal unions .
Thus taking anodic protection out of the equation .

The various alloy components on my classic cars stay corrosion free without any anodic protection solely due to the inhibitors regularly being replenished in the coolant system .So the same principle for longer term storage ashore works with marine .

I don't think plain fresh water ( especially after sea ) is going to cut the mustard.......but you are welcome to try .

I,ll stick to zinc with marine thx But if it ever was put in a hanger make sure it’s corrosion inhibited properly not just wheeled not a corner and a dust sheet popped over it.

Maybe I’ve answered my question of who how and why those scrap pallets are filled up with marine coolers in yards

 

[MapisM]

I,ll stick to zinc with marine thx

Non sequitur. The BodgeFlow™ goes on top of anodic protection, it's not a replacement.
Btw, just FYI, the owner of my yard has the same same system on his own Amati-era 45.
But he never recommended it to his clients, if you see what I mean.
After all, boat maintenance is his business - since almost half a century, btw.
If that doesn't tell you something, I don't know what else can.

 

[Bouba]

Non sequitur. The BodgeFlow™ goes on top of anodic protection, it's not a replacement.
Btw, just FYI, the owner of my yard has the same same system on his own Amati-era 45.
But he never recommended it to his clients, if you see what I mean.
After all, boat maintenance is his business - since almost half a century, btw.
If that doesn't tell you something, I don't know what else can.

I’m sold !
Best argument I’ve ever heard

 

[Portofino]

Non sequitur. The BodgeFlow™ goes on top of anodic protection, it's not a replacement.
Btw, just FYI, the owner of my yard has the same same system on his own Amati-era 45.
But he never recommended it to his clients, if you see what I mean.
After all, boat maintenance is his business - since almost half a century, btw.
If that doesn't tell you something, I don't know what else can.

Bet his eyes have seen a lot

Pencil anodes with the GMs ? Worried about dry anodes after drain down ? Tells me what I,am trying to say
Bet he hangers it too in the off season.
Do you know which GM DD s he has ? 12V 71 was good for 50;+ knots.
Most were 8V 92 with 735 Hp good for 45 knots + Not bad in circa 1987 @ launch with straight shafts .


Anyhow your MANs are not local pencil , has your hangerd boat been properly winterised ,ie corrosion inhibitors flushed through the raw winter systems?

 

[jrudge]

Porto

Where is Anna Geek when you need her.

If this is true you have found the never ending battery and will make billions.

A battery is a function of its electrodes AND its electrolyte.

At the battery drains the anode, the cathode and the electrolyte are changing and eventually the ability to pass electrons comes to an end and it stops.

In a normal sea scenario the sea water is limitless and changing all the time - even in a stopped engine there will be some level of flow, and the electrodes are large - the engine and the zink - hence they erode.

In the case of being on shore the electrolyte is (a) small (b) not limitless.

As such the reaction will have a finite time to run - when the electrolyte has had it.

This does not mean that leaving if full of salt water for months is a great idea ( flushing is not hard) but it does not mean you engine will self destruct in days.

In a lead acid battery for example the acid looses strength until such time as it is reversed by charging.

If anyone can find Anna Geek I am sure she can clarify.

 

[TwoHooter]

I miss Anna Geek.

 

[Portofino]

Porto

Where is Anna Geek when you need her.

If this is true you have found the never ending battery and will make billions.

A battery is a function of its electrodes AND its electrolyte.

At the battery drains the anode, the cathode and the electrolyte are changing and eventually the ability to pass electrons comes to an end and it stops.

In a normal sea scenario the sea water is limitless and changing all the time - even in a stopped engine there will be some level of flow, and the electrodes are large - the engine and the zink - hence they erode.

In the case of being on shore the electrolyte is (a) small (b) not limitless.

As such the reaction will have a finite time to run - when the electrolyte has had it.

This does not mean that leaving if full of salt water for months is a great idea ( flushing is not hard) but it does not mean you engine will self destruct in days.

In a lead acid battery for example the acid looses strength until such time as it is reversed by charging.

If anyone can find Anna Geek I am sure she can clarify.

What happens is a piece of expensive engine takes over from the now dry zinc and fizzes away .Ok its position in the anodic chart is not as far away as the zinc so it fizzes slowly, I agree with that .I have always inferred a couple of weeks on the hard is ok for its annual .


Just working out why yards , big yards that do engine removals + other stuff always have a pallet of scrap coolers regularly filled up .

Yet you don’t see scraped corroded engine blocks in the classic ( or regular) car maintenance places ...tells me corrosion inhibitors in circulating coolant works effectively.
And numbers wise the motor car world is massive compared to the leisure boat world .

So theres obviously a marine cooler corrosion problem worthy of debate .No ?

How ever let’s agree one thing once we are all allowed back to our boats the first thing to check and attend to are the anodes .

 

[MapisM]

Do you know which GM DD s he has ?

Nope, sorry.
DDs they are for good, you can tell from miles away... Not sure of the model, though.
No surface drives or any other exotic transmissions, fwiw.
And all white, btw. Those who think that the blue hull is essential to Itama elegance, obviously never saw a white one in flesh.

PS: ref. flushing with fresh water+glycol before storing, well, eggs and grandma spring to mind...!

 

[MapisM]

I miss Anna Geek.

+1.
Not as much as Latestarter, but it's indeed a pity that she isn't around anymore.

 

[kashurst]

Just received this from my marina is Spain:

Torrevieja, 1st May 2020

Good morning, everyone,

First of all, it is our wish that all of you, your families and beloved are in good health.
After the different writings made by many associations and now specifically by ANEN, the Director General of the Merchant Navy, has published a text where the doubts of the navigators are clarified.
In the attached file is the response of the Director of the Merchant Navy to the
ANEN consultation.La náutica de recreo preparada para la desescalada con el arranque inminente de sus actividades - Anen
-arranque-inminente-de-sus-actividades/

Based on the recommendations established by the Government of the Nation, the Ministry of Health, the Directorate General of the Merchant Navy and the State Port authorities, the Club Nautico Marina Internacional, wishes that, with everyone's responsible help, we can achieve the enjoyment of our facilities and boats, safely.

To this end, all health and safety measures have been reinforced in our facilities, carrying out this week an integrated disinfection of the whole port, (central pontoon, side pontoons, public toilets and offices and seamanship), a reinforcement that will continue to be maintained in time for the safety of all. Likewise, the working staff has been provided with protective equipment (masks, gloves and protective screens), as this way we must and try to give security to the professional who is ensuring the care of the Club and port facilities. With regard to the offices and seafaring, these spaces are being fitted out in accordance with the protocol, hygiene, safety and spacing instructions, with partitions and screens so that they can be attended to with these safety measures.

As a summary and according to the guidelines indicated, the following phases are established (except for any modifications established by the Government of Spain)
In Phase 0 (4 to 10 May): no sailing for leisure, unless it is for sport and individually, and visits to the boats by their owners are authorized for the checks of security and maintenance, as long as these are in the same municipal district of the owner's residence.

In Phase I (11 to 25 May): initial phase, Recreational boating will be developed on the basis of their consideration as active tourism, personal limitations should be respected and measures taken for disinfection, having geographical limitations.

In Phase II (26 May to 9 June): intermediate phase. Recreational navigation can be carried out with larger groups of people. The owners of boats moored in a different municipality , but in the same province, will already be able to make visits for safety and maintenance checks. There will still be limitations on the navigation between provinces or islands.
In Phase III, (10 to 24 June): open phase, will be permitted the nautical recreational activities, without limitations.


From the CNMI, we appeal to the responsibility of all members and tenants of our facilities, so that, between us, we leave this pandemic together, and we ask you to fulfill, each and every one of us, with the necessary safety, hygiene and prevention measures, to get through the proposed phases and gradually return to the "normality." We ask, as far as possible and as advisable, the use of masks and gloves in common areas of the Port, as well as to comply with the distancing measures.
For any consultation or clarification, we are at your disposal.


Sounds positive for people who live in Spain. We shall have to wait and see if/when UK based people are allowed back.

 

[Paul_S123]

I just got that from my marina in Soptogrande...so will be headed down to the marina tomorrow to check things out

 

[Portofino]

And all white, btw. Those who think that the blue hull is essential to Itama elegance, obviously never saw a white one in flesh.

Yup , they were all made to order and at one stage Amarti invited you ( prospect) for lunch and if he took a dislike to you he did not build you a boat .
Theres a yellow and turquoise too .
This Family passed the Amarti test used it as a tender to something bigger .It was a triple engine as the fuel bill / oil price was kinda irrelevant.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Everyone is a comedian

When I told them I was going to be a comedian they all laughed, but they’re not laughing now.

One of the best one liners ever, Bob Monkhouse.

 

[Forty_Two]

Mistral for the last couple of days so nice clear views

 

[Portofino]

Painted the bog doors grey from cream

 

[Ratkins]

Just received this from my marina is Spain:

Torrevieja, 1st May 2020

Good morning, everyone,

First of all, it is our wish that all of you, your families and beloved are in good health.
After the different writings made by many associations and now specifically by ANEN, the Director General of the Merchant Navy, has published a text where the doubts of the navigators are clarified.
In the attached file is the response of the Director of the Merchant Navy to the
ANEN consultation.La náutica de recreo preparada para la desescalada con el arranque inminente de sus actividades - Anen
-arranque-inminente-de-sus-actividades/

Based on the recommendations established by the Government of the Nation, the Ministry of Health, the Directorate General of the Merchant Navy and the State Port authorities, the Club Nautico Marina Internacional, wishes that, with everyone's responsible help, we can achieve the enjoyment of our facilities and boats, safely.

To this end, all health and safety measures have been reinforced in our facilities, carrying out this week an integrated disinfection of the whole port, (central pontoon, side pontoons, public toilets and offices and seamanship), a reinforcement that will continue to be maintained in time for the safety of all. Likewise, the working staff has been provided with protective equipment (masks, gloves and protective screens), as this way we must and try to give security to the professional who is ensuring the care of the Club and port facilities. With regard to the offices and seafaring, these spaces are being fitted out in accordance with the protocol, hygiene, safety and spacing instructions, with partitions and screens so that they can be attended to with these safety measures.

As a summary and according to the guidelines indicated, the following phases are established (except for any modifications established by the Government of Spain)
In Phase 0 (4 to 10 May): no sailing for leisure, unless it is for sport and individually, and visits to the boats by their owners are authorized for the checks of security and maintenance, as long as these are in the same municipal district of the owner's residence.

In Phase I (11 to 25 May): initial phase, Recreational boating will be developed on the basis of their consideration as active tourism, personal limitations should be respected and measures taken for disinfection, having geographical limitations.

In Phase II (26 May to 9 June): intermediate phase. Recreational navigation can be carried out with larger groups of people. The owners of boats moored in a different municipality , but in the same province, will already be able to make visits for safety and maintenance checks. There will still be limitations on the navigation between provinces or islands.
In Phase III, (10 to 24 June): open phase, will be permitted the nautical recreational activities, without limitations.


From the CNMI, we appeal to the responsibility of all members and tenants of our facilities, so that, between us, we leave this pandemic together, and we ask you to fulfill, each and every one of us, with the necessary safety, hygiene and prevention measures, to get through the proposed phases and gradually return to the "normality." We ask, as far as possible and as advisable, the use of masks and gloves in common areas of the Port, as well as to comply with the distancing measures.
For any consultation or clarification, we are at your disposal.


Sounds positive for people who live in Spain. We shall have to wait and see if/when UK based people are allowed back.

Got the same from marina salinas Torrevieja, hopefully times are changing