This is not my week!

[Forbsie]

On Friday I discovered that my cockpit roof had gone. I went on the boat on Monday and it seems that at high tide the boat had been pushed into the branches of a tree and as the tide lowered, the tree pulled the roof off. No sign of it anywhere so I've now got an opentop. As BarryH says "At least it will be easier to get the engine out."

This morning, I got a summons for a speeding incident last September. I really thought that I'd got away with that one. Anyone know a good lawyer?

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/forbsie?&page=1>My Project</A>

 

[byron]

<font color=blue> Can they summons you 4 months later? Isn't there a time limit on these things? I don't know I'm not stating... I am asking. I knew about your boat roof and can only commiserate with you as it's probably just passing Syds mooring down Tilbury way by now.

http://www.alexander-advertising.co.uk

 

[DepSol]

If you dont get your summons within 10 days then its not worth the paper its written on I am told.

I had the same last time I was in the UK as I thort that it was funny seeing all these flashing lights everywhere.

Mate told me if I dont get anything in 10 days not to worry about it.

Dom

2003 is going to be a good year for me

 

[jfm]

Legal stuff

The time limit in UK, as opposed to Guernsey, is 6 months. I can give you details of best lawyer in country, who generally gets an acquittal if you like. He is in Manchester and he is pretty spensive (say, allow £4.5k) but you get costs awarded back to you if you win, so it's a kind of quadruple or quits game. He did for me in my recent case. But a diy approach may be ok. Can you say:

1. Were you stopped by cop at roadside, ie not a camera job, right?
2.. Did you show him your licence?
3. Did you sign the ticket that was issued at the roadside?
4. Did you go to the police station within 7 days to show your licence, insurance, etc?
5. What method did police use (ie laser gun, vascar, following you, etc)?
6. What speed were you allegedly doing, in what speed limit?
7. How many pts alreddy on licence?

PM if you do not wish to admit it was 155mph (on the limiter) on the M11 (I wish.....)

(OK, I confess, items 6 and 7 are nothing to do with the law, I'm just curious....)

 

[DepSol]

Re: Legal stuff

This was the last time I was in the UK to be specific Dorset, Poole area and between Southampton and Brighton.

My freind is an Inspector in the Dorset Police force who said if I had not received notification within 10 days from the incident then not to worry.

Dom

2003 is going to be a good year for me

 

[ccscott49]

Re: Legal stuff

Thats not quite true, I've heard of this "notice of intended prosecution" but it doesn't seem to work. I was sent, to my mail forwarding address, a form thingy telling me to notify the police, who was driving a hire car, which was photograqphed speeding. This letter was not sent recorded delivery. My mail didn't get to me for two months, as I was in the ballearics. They found me guilty of noit notifying them, fined me 220 pounds, which I recieved all at the same time, cancelled my dribving licence, because I didn't send it in for endorsement, (I didn't know) Now they are tryimng to sieze the goods of the forwarding address, because I haven't paid the fine! Try that for a can of worms!! None of this correspondence was sent by recorded delivery, if it had, I would never have recieved it, as the forwarding address will not accept it. What would they have done then? I still haven't paid the fine and don't now ebven know who to pay it to.

 

[Forbsie]

Re: Legal stuff

1. Stopped at roadside
2. I showed licence
3. Can't remember signing ticket but maybe signed her notebook. No ticket was issued at roadside.
4. Not requested to.
5. Vascar
6. 101mph average
7. I had 3 points for speeding in 1999 on the day that my mother died!

Being unemployed at the mo, I can't afford the £4.5k or anything like it. A mate of mine has just suggested that I speak to AA lawyer and get some initial advice.

Why Me?

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[jfm]

Re: Legal stuff - time limits

Hang on, the legal process is different depending on whether a camera or a human is involved. The position is this:

1. If a speed camera is used (ie not a human), police must issue a Notice of Intended Prosecution (usually by mail) within 14 days, else no prosecution. They then have 6 months to issue summons.

2. If a rozzer stops you in person, they inform you verbally there and then that you will be considered for prosecution. That is the NIP. Then they have 6 months to summons you. (Actually there are some interesting legal flaws in the issuing of verbal NIPS in this way for speeding becuase the offence category that speeding falls in under the Police and Crim Evidence Act doesn't require the type of NIP they tend to use, but I wont get into that now)

I use the word "human" just to make the point. I'm not saying for sure that all policemen are in fact human.

 

[jfm]

Re: Legal stuff

Hmmm. Those are bad answers I'm afraid. You should never ever show your licence, nor sign anything. Dang.

Possible ways out are the following, and neither is certain:

1. Hire a lawyer and request all evidence as to calibration of vascar (NB read the statemtn in the prosecution papers - was it calibrated by the actual officer making the statment, or does he say that some other PC calibrated it?) and see if there's a way to find flaw in their evidence. You need a good lawyer for this imho, your local high street type is unlikely imho to know the rules of evidence in enough detail to spot what needs to be spotted here. Hence high cost I'm afraid.

2. Take a DIY punt.. Ask for all evidence against you including a long list of calibration details on the vascar kit, copy of certificates of compliance of the kit, details of the training courses arttended by the officers who used the equipment etc etc. Remeber as the defendent you are entitled to ask this stuff, they can either provide it or if they dont you argue in your defence that the information is missing etc etc. The hoped-for outcome of this approach is that they can't be bothered and they will drop the prosecution.
I can pdf email you sample letters for this, as a guide about what to ask for. This is a somewhat risky strategy, but it could work and you have little to lose - for 101mph you are certain to get 6 points anyway, and a somewhat chunky fine. The 1999 points have expired - they only tott up for 3 years. I have never tried this approach personally but others have.

No disrespect to AA and all entirely imho, but you are wasting your time with AA lawyers. They will tell you to plead guilty I bet. Winning in this game is about knowing the rules in immense detail, and being clever in your tactics. AA lawyers (a) will not advise you about cute tactics for fear of being featured on Watchdog or something, and (b) will not know the law in immense detail. Frankly, why would a good lawyer work in an AA call centre when he can bill £250 - £750 an hour in private practice?

Good luck anyway. Gimme email if you want pdf.

 

[tcm]

Re: The third way

The third way is to Take It On The Chin.

This will go down very well. You just go to court and blubber. You're very sorry, don't normally drive at that speed and have Certainly Learnt Your Lesson. You'll be asked Why you were going at that speed, normally cues crap excuse like dying granny that thiv all heard before. But you say that really there is no good excuse, and again you are very very sorry indeed, and you know they have got to ban you but there again, you know you've broken the law. Sorry again.

If it was a ferrari or other loonyspeed car, make it clear that obviously, it's not your car, goodness me no a Director of the company let you use it for the weekend. But now you lost your job. Or, make sure you enter your job as very crap, including the word "operative". So, you are a "banking operative" if you actually an investment banker.

Wife at the back of courtroom with hanky and turn round to see if she is okay will do very nicely.

With above, I reckon home counties sub-200 quid fine and six point, 2-4 week ban. Priovincial you're looking nearer 1 month ban and 150-350 quid fine and six points. The law is a bit strange ar over 100: at 98 they have the same rigmarole but the points stay on yr licence. So, get caught 4 times at 98 at its a 12-month ban. But repeated 100+ means repeated 2-4 week bans and no 1-year ban under the totting-up rule. weird.

 

[Martin_Billings]

First thing you need to know is what are the consequences.

Can you be successfully prosecuted? If so what defences do you have? Will they work? If not, what penalty will you get? Is it something you can live with or not?

All these factors will shape what you decide to do and you are going to need a specialist in the field to advise you. As you will see from my profile, I am a lawyer but this is emphatically not my area and I couldn't answer any of these questions and wouldn't get involved in something outside my own specialist area and, no, I am not going to say what that is as I have quite enough to do at the moment!

 

[ccscott49]

Re: Legal stuff - time limits

It was a camera, but how can they say, I failed to give them the details of who was driving the car, when I never recieved the letter asking for that and was completely unaware of having committed an offence and it wasn't recorded delivery? I was fined for not providing the details, not speeding. It just doesn't seem right.

 

[DepSol]

Let me know which Prison they chuck you in and I will visit next time I am i the UK.

Dom

2003 is going to be a good year for me

 

[jfm]

It\'s a sharkpool round here! <G>

OK, promise not to ask you any questions about commercial property, construction/civil engineering, corporate finance etc. Gotta admit, and I'm sure your clients have seddit many times, you have a great surname for the job!

 

[tcm]

Re: Eh?

I bet he's never noticed. Not as good as yours, Jesus F. MotherofGodHowMuch?

 

[Martin_Billings]

Re: It\'s a sharkpool round here! <G>

It's been mentioned! But I'll never forget the tears in the eyes of my first boss when he said "Charge like a rhino, my boy, and you'll be alright"

 

[JEG]

"Good Lawyer" is an oxymoron. Why has Washington got the most lawyers & New Jersey the most toxic waste sites? N.J had first choice.
Please keep within the speed limit; you might kill someone worthwhile.

 

[rhinorhino]

Re: Legal stuff

As a criminal lawyer, I can say the rates being quoted around here are plain silly, there is also no, I repeat no, lawyer who can promise to get you aquitted and under the current rules even if aquitted (esp. when using a technical defence) there is every chance you will not be awarded your costs.
The best advice is to consider what it would cost you to plead guilty (to what you undoubtedly did, if I understand you correctly); in this case a fine (if you unemployed this is unlikely to be huge) and a short ban, but you may be able to escape the ban. If you can swallow this, I advise you to do so.
Sorry to be negative, but a quick plea and a genuine statement of your remorse and your limited means is likely to be the quickist and most painless way out.

 

[tcm]

Don\'t listen to him!

You need a nice honest lawyer. Not a *criminal* lawyer!

However, I agree, but suggest laying the remorse on a bit thicker, don't hold back.

 

[Sybarite]

This happened to me on my first boat. A boat moored inside me left and tied a mooring line direct to a handrail on the roof - at high tide.

Commiserations.

John