The Truth About Sailing On The Algarve

[nortada]

Hi Andy,

Welcome to the YBW Forum and The Algarve. From experience, you should find variety and plenty to do in The Gulf of Cadiz.

Not sure whether you plan to be a long-term live-aboard or a UK commuter but either way, the ease and low cost of transport between the UK and Faro is a another significant factor.

 

[colhel]

Had a nice afternoon in Bruces last year with Sandyman, well we're coming over again on May 2nd till the 11th with some boaty friends joining us on the 6th. We'll be mainly in Albufeira and Almodovar but we'll have a hire car so would anyone like to meet up for glass of something?

 

[GrahamM376]

Had a nice afternoon in Bruces last year with Sandyman, well we're coming over again on May 2nd till the 11th with some boaty friends joining us on the 6th. We'll be mainly in Albufeira and Almodovar but we'll have a hire car so would anyone like to meet up for glass of something?

We left Bruce's a couple of weeks ago. Sandy is still there but not well following a stroke last year

 

[colhel]

I didn't know that Graham. Ill pm you later.

 

[Yngmar]

Having spent the last winter there, I've blogged a bit about our stay in the Algarve and choosing a winter berth there: https://sdfjkl.org/blog/2018-04-09-wintering-algarve/

Beware, may contain opinions ;-)

 

[andyfollett]

Hi Yngmar
Im motoring up from Gibralter to Portimao and know the Portuguese coast well but what are the 2 best marina stops between Gib and the Spanish border would you say. We will be looking for somewhere pretty, nice restaurants, fuel, clean and well looked after facilities. Trip will be in June so not concerned about shelter just good spots to explore!
Enjoyed the blog.
Thanks Andy.

 

[stranded]

Having spent the last winter there, I've blogged a bit about our stay in the Algarve and choosing a winter berth there: https://sdfjkl.org/blog/2018-04-09-wintering-algarve/

Beware, may contain opinions ;-)

Have you decided where you’re heading next? We’ve been dodging the weather in Ayamonte these last few days but hoping to set off for the Med tomorrow afternoon.

 

[Yngmar]

Im motoring up from Gibralter to Portimao and know the Portuguese coast well but what are the 2 best marina stops between Gib and the Spanish border would you say. We will be looking for somewhere pretty, nice restaurants, fuel, clean and well looked after facilities. Trip will be in June so not concerned about shelter just good spots to explore!

Not too sure, we've not been further than the Guadiana yet, but we've written plenty about the places until there in previous articles. The four in the west Algarve (Lagos, Portimao, Albufeira and Vilamoura) all have good facilities, fuel and plenty of restaurants to pick from. If you want to stop before that and enter the Guadiana, Ayamonte has a far better marina than VRSA. If you like anchoring, Culatra is well worth visiting. Further east we haven't been yet, but can highly recommend the west coast, especially Porto.

Have you decided where you’re heading next? We’ve been dodging the weather in Ayamonte these last few days but hoping to set off for the Med tomorrow afternoon.

We're hopefully setting off in two days, but have some temporary crew to show around the Algarve for a week before we head over to Cadiz and then strait, if the weather plays ball. Very April so far! Where in the med are you heading?

 

[stranded]

Not too sure, we've not been further than the Guadiana yet, but we've written plenty about the places until there in previous articles. The four in the west Algarve (Lagos, Portimao, Albufeira and Vilamoura) all have good facilities, fuel and plenty of restaurants to pick from. If you want to stop before that and enter the Guadiana, Ayamonte has a far better marina than VRSA. If you like anchoring, Culatra is well worth visiting. Further east we haven't been yet, but can highly recommend the west coast, especially Porto.



We're hopefully setting off in two days, but have some temporary crew to show around the Algarve for a week before we head over to Cadiz and then strait, if the weather plays ball. Very April so far! Where in the med are you heading?

Ibiza first proper stop but now want to stop off in Almeria to raise a glass to an uncle who died yesterday and told a lot of fine yarns about his times there doing the hippy thang in the 60s.

 

[greeny]

try Rota near to Cadiz. good marina right next to small town. Lots of restaurants and typically Spanish. Don't think you'll regret it.

 

[andyfollett]

Thanks Greeny will look at that. Cheers andy

 

[nortada]

Having spent the last winter there, I've blogged a bit about our stay in the Algarve and choosing a winter berth there: https://sdfjkl.org/blog/2018-04-09-wintering-algarve/

Beware, may contain opinions ;-)

Many thanks for all of the information in your blog. A very useful update.

Glad Albufeira worked well for you. Having hauled, how good was the technical support or was all of your work DIY and did you consider hauling in Bruce’s Yard - Faro

When I was last there, because of lack of hard standing space, you could only be ashore for a few days so long storage/drying out ashore was not possible. Is this still the case

As you will be aware, when cruising in Portuguese Waters you have to have a Light Dues Certificate, costing €2 it is unlikely to dent the cruising budget but is it possible to get one at the marina

Finally, was there any question of you producing T2LElse where this issue appears to have been put on a back burner.

Once again many thanks for the update.

 

[andyfollett]

Hi one thing to be aware of is that if a foreighn boat stays in Portugal for more than 181 days in a calendar year it becomes subject to tax which is based on engine size in KWs. Ive not heard of it being collected yes but have been warned so have always opted to take the boat to the spanish border to be on the safe side. All thats needed is a night in a Spanish marina (receipt kept to prove it) and foreign registered boats can avoid the Portuguese tax. Most people ive talked to either havent heard about it or have not been concerned enough to move the boat out of Portugal to comply but its a rule that might become more widely enforced at some point? For a motorboat it would be quite a chunk of money and hundreds of euros even for a sailboat.

 

[nortada]

Hi one thing to be aware of is that if a foreighn boat stays in Portugal for more than 181 days in a calendar year it becomes subject to tax which is based on engine size in KWs. Ive not heard of it being collected yes but have been warned so have always opted to take the boat to the spanish border to be on the safe side. All thats needed is a night in a Spanish marina (receipt kept to prove it) and foreign registered boats can avoid the Portuguese tax. Most people ive talked to either havent heard about it or have not been concerned enough to move the boat out of Portugal to comply but its a rule that might become more widely enforced at some point? For a motorboat it would be quite a chunk of money and hundreds of euros even for a sailboat.

Wrong️

If it were 181 days in a calendar year than having been in Portugal from 1st Jan to 1st July, that vessel would not be able to return to Portugal until the following year without becoming liable for the circulation tax.

I think you will find this tax only applies to vessels who spend 183 days contiguous in Portuguese Waters and the clock resets when a vessel departs Portuguese Waters. Moreover, older boats and those with smaller engines are exempt. Pretty sure all of the details are posted somewhere on this thread.

For most sailing vessels the tax payable would be under €100 so it costs more to decamp to Spain than pay up.

So far as I know, there was an attempt to collect this tax about 15 years ago but it caused such bad feeling that the authorities, aware of the damage it could do to their tourist industry, never repeated the exercise.

It would be interesting if any long-stay sailors could give an update or shed any further light on this issue.

Should add that so far as I am aware, Portuguese registered vessels pay this tax from the 1st of Jan.

 

[Yngmar]

Many thanks for all of the information in your blog. A very useful update.

Glad Albufeira worked well for you. Having hauled, how good was the technical support or was all of your work DIY and did you consider hauling in Bruce’s Yard - Faro

When I was last there, because of lack of hard standing space, you could only be ashore for a few days so long storage/drying out ashore was not possible. Is this still the case

As you will be aware, when cruising in Portuguese Waters you have to have a Light Dues Certificate, costing €2 it is unlikely to dent the cruising budget but is it possible to get one at the marina

Finally, was there any question of you producing T2LElse where this issue appears to have been put on a back burner.

Once again many thanks for the update.

Will blog some more about our boatyard stay later, but we did everything ourselves anyways. Bruce's yard would've worked out more expensive and less convenient. Room in the boatyard is limited, but doesn't matter - the real limit are the only 3 available cradles for sailboats.

I think we paid the Farolagem at Viana do Castelo last year when we first entered Portugal and expect they'll be charged with the next marina fee somewhere again. It was indeed just €2. Happy to pay that - lighthouses are useful.

We carry a T2L (easy to get with the RYA prepared papers) but nobody ever asked us for it. Maybe it'll come in handy for when we have to reflag the boat to a EU member state

The boat tax is applied by financial year (which is the calendar year), so the 183 day count resets at January 1st. So for people like us that just winter here and then move on, the boat was less than 183 days in Portugal in 2017 and will be less than 183 days in Portugal in 2018, so not liable for this tax. Which is why we chose Portugal over Spain!

 

[nortada]

Will blog some more about our boatyard stay later, but we did everything ourselves anyways. Bruce's yard would've worked out more expensive and less convenient. Room in the boatyard is limited, but doesn't matter - the real limit are the only 3 available cradles for sailboats.

I think we paid the Farolagem at Viana do Castelo last year when we first entered Portugal and expect they'll be charged with the next marina fee somewhere again. It was indeed just €2. Happy to pay that - lighthouses are useful.

We carry a T2L (easy to get with the RYA prepared papers) but nobody ever asked us for it. Maybe it'll come in handy for when we have to reflag the boat to a EU member state

The boat tax is applied by financial year (which is the calendar year), so the 183 day count starts on January 1st. So for people like us that just winter here and then move on, the boat was less than 183 days in Portugal in 2017 and will be less than 183 days in Portugal in 2018, so not liable for this tax. Which is why we chose Portugal over Spain!

T2L. Easier still to pull down and send direct to HMRC Salford. The form is at: https://assets.publishing.service.g...oads/attachment_data/file/374245/c88_1-8_.pdf. Aide memoire on how to complete the form: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/lag...ide-memoir-british-flagged-vessels-t1885.html.

Boat Tax. Thanks - for clarifications, the only bit I would add (as said in my previous message); a vessel becomes liable for circulation (boat) tax after a contiguous 183 days in Portuguese Waters in a calendar year so the 183 days resets to zero when the vessel leaves Portuguese Waters or on 1st Jan.

This could become significant for those who spend most of their time in Portuguese Water.

Possibly I appear pedantic but over the years misunderstandings have caused a load of confusion, some grief and people attempting to pay circulation tax when they weren’t liable - much to the surprise of the local tax office, who until then, didn’t know this tax existed Let sleeping dogs lie and all of that.

Finally, not aware that Spain has a circulation taxI know many folk who keep their boats in Spain but have never heard of an annual boat tax. As I understand it, the issue in Spain is PEOPLE who spend more than 183 days, in a calendar year in Spain, not BOATs and this is a tax/residency matter

Possibly folk in Spain will be able shed more light

 

[GHA]

Anyone know first hand of a boat asked to pay the circulation tax?

 

[nortada]

Anyone know first hand of a boat asked to pay the circulation tax?

Not in the last 5 years but I know of people who voluntarily pay it.

Risk is this could encourage the authorities to pursue others.

 

[greeny]

I was questioned about my length of stay in Portimao marina about 8 yrs ago by the fiscal police not the pm. They seemed very interested in all the british boats but at the time there seemed to be no-one on board any of them. Strange how the word gets round of official visits isn't it. They lost interest in me when they found out i had just returned from Spain a week ago and they explained that i now had 6 months to stay and then i should leave or pay a circulation tax they called it. I asked how much it would be and when they realised my engine was only 16 kW they said i was exempt anyway. Apparently there is a sliding scale of charges dependant on engine size, LOA and beam. Unless you've got a gas guzzling mobo the tax is pretty minimal i believe. What they did say was that the responsibility is on the boat owner to declare his stay and pay the tax. Fines could be levied for non payment.
They were nice guys actually and spent 10 mins or so chatting about it. I don't think they really wanted to be there but it was flavour of the month for their department at the time.
Since that day I've never seen or heard of another visit in the marina asking about this, or about anyone actually paying anything.
The thing that they are hot on is the light duties that are payable annually and this should be paid to the port police. Not a big deal, only a few euros again dependant on boat size it seems. I have seen the pm checking boats in the anchorage for this from time to time but never seen them in the marina.
According to the locals, fishing permits are going to be on the agenda this year at some point so if you see them coming, put the rods away smartish and if you are fishing legally make sure you'wearing a lifejacket at all times, another favourite of theirs.

 

[andyfollett]

Wrong️

If it were 181 days in a calendar year than having been in Portugal from 1st Jan to 1st July, that vessel would not be able to return to Portugal until the following year without becoming liable for the circulation tax.

I think you will find this tax only applies to vessels who spend 183 days contiguous in Portuguese Waters and the clock resets when a vessel departs Portuguese Waters. Moreover, older boats and those with smaller engines are exempt. Pretty sure all of the details are posted somewhere on this thread.

For most sailing vessels the tax payable would be under €100 so it costs more to decamp to Spain than pay up.

So far as I know, there was an attempt to collect this tax about 15 years ago but it caused such bad feeling that the authorities, aware of the damage it could do to their tourist industry, never repeated the exercise.

It would be interesting if any long-stay sailors could give an update or shed any further light on this issue.

Should add that so far as I am aware, Portuguese registered vessels pay this tax from the 1st of Jan.

I stand to be corrected but i dont think im altogether WRONG. This tax is certainly intended for Portuguese registered vessels but foreign vessels become liable for it after staying (give or take an exact number) 183 days. After that number of days within a calendar year your British registered boat is liable. It can be avoided if you take it out of the country within the 183 days (forgive me it may be 181 i didnt google the exact number). When the boat returns the clock resets and it also resets again at the end of the calendar year which is why a short stay in Spain right in the middle of the year is appropriate if you wish to avoid the tax. Ive no idea how much the fine is if you dont self declare but its certainly worth being aware of (regardless as to whether or not they currently pursue for the tax it IS due under their law) and as such it might be a mistake to assume its never monitored especially if you own a motorboat. The boat does not need to remain out of Portugal after 183 days. The law simply states that any vessel that stays for that number of days continuously in a calendar year is liable (whether at the beginning or end of the caledar year) so 2 long stays in portugal each less than the 183 (or 181 whatever it is) ensures the tax is not liable. Just a heads up but having kept a boat in Portimao for 12 years or so im pretty certain the information is not exactly wrong.