The RYA, yes, no, maybe, but - their recent comments on Pyrotechnics

If the wind's anything like today. they'll know from the direction the ship's dog is flying from its chain...

I read obsolescent as meaning that there are alternatives which are better in most circumstances, and I think that's a fair comment. When my last flare pack got so out of date I felt it was time to change it, I got an LED "flare". It lasts for 5 hours instead of the few seconds of a firework and has a service life several times the firework, plus I can change the battery.

I have a fixed DSC vhf, plus a handheld, and we have a couple of phones on board. Since we rarely go out of 999 range, I've never bothered with parachute flares, as I think we've got the calling for help bit covered; the flare is only for when rescue is getting closer and I reckon the claimed 7 mile visibility is adequate for that. The big advantage is that I can give it to Milady to hold without fear that she'll set fire to something or someone, while I get on with trying to save the boat - or even tie it to the rigging if I'm on my own.

Were I to go offshore, I can get an EPIRB for little more than the price of a set of offshore flares. I know which I'd rather have. If you want flares, go for it, but I know which I'd rather have, especially if I have to abandon to the inflatable.

On which subject, if I'm drifting around in a tiny flubber, how does a chopper rescue me? Seems to me that the downdraft spreads out and would blow a flubber away. I've no experience in real life, or any desire to find out except in theory ?
 
penberth3 said:
This comment often comes up. Do helicopter pilots REALLY need to be shown the wind direction, or is it something they can work out for themselves, if they have to?
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The former Navy helicopter pilot who was the instructor on my Coastal Skipper course reckoned it was. That said, he arranged with the Coastguard for us to be used in one of their trying flights and we didn’t use one and that was just east of Ryde Middle. It was a great experience bring the diver down and sending him back up.
 
A reason you fly into wind (e.g. in a boat to helicopter transfer).... At low alt, such as during a rescue, the downdraft from the rotors sets up a recirculating column of air. Eventually the helicopter is trying to maintain altitude in the downdraft. This needs lots of power (and fuel consumption). To avoid the problem the pilot must constantly fly out of the column, usually into wind (do I need to explain why?)

Stemar, If you're in a flubber that looks like it will blow away or in other stationary situations, they'll put a man in the water, put you in the water and take you up on the line out of the water.
 
A slight thread drift.
Years ago, I had a pack of miniflares for use when dinghy sailing. Fitted into the pocket on my buoyancy aid and gave me half a dozen little flares which ejected upwards and burned for several seconds. Not as powerful as a conventional hand held, but easy to carry and visible over relatively short distances. Then they seemed to vanish from chandlers' shelves. Have now re-appeared.
I will probably have a PLB and maybe a hand held VHF, but am contemplating getting some miniflares as well. Worth the fairly modest expense?
 
penberth3 said:
This comment often comes up. Do helicopter pilots REALLY need to be shown the wind direction, or is it something they can work out for themselves, if they have to?
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Good question. Doing casualty evacuation I have never seen an RNLI lifeboat or ship set off a flare when the helicopter is coming in. Instead they motor into the wind, as would a yacht doing similarly.

If the casualty boat is completely incapacitated, I suspect the pilot would be able to work out a lot visually from the surface waves and drift of boat / liferaft.
 
PilotWolf said:
I haven't flown in too long but unless there is locally located direction indicator then I'd say yes. Hovering into wind is significantly better than trying to downwind. The additional lift is important.

W.
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Sorry, two questions in my post, so not sure which one you're saying "yes" to. I was just thinking most of the time armed forces/CG/air ambulance etc., are away from base they manage OK without wind sock or smoke. Agreed smoke can show location, but is it essential for showing wind to a pilot?
 
blackbeard said:
A slight thread drift.
Years ago, I had a pack of miniflares for use when dinghy sailing. Fitted into the pocket on my buoyancy aid and gave me half a dozen little flares which ejected upwards and burned for several seconds. Not as powerful as a conventional hand held, but easy to carry and visible over relatively short distances. Then they seemed to vanish from chandlers' shelves. Have now re-appeared.
I will probably have a PLB and maybe a hand held VHF, but am contemplating getting some miniflares as well. Worth the fairly modest expense?
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I too saw those before and wanted some ...

I seem to recall the ones I saw - had a 'gun' holder for the flare and I think there was a question about the laws governing their use ... whether they were classed as VERY flares or not ..
 
I think that LED pinpoint "flares" are getting better all the time .Probably never will be as bright as a flare but much more versatile.

LED Flare EDF1



A handheld pirotechnic pinpoint flare is burnt out in a minute or so whereas the LED can work for 6 hours or more and be switched off and on as required .

Orange smoke for daytime pinpoint marking still makes sense .

With multiple electronic means of raising the alarm both handheld and connected to the boats electric system I dont think I will be buying anymore rockets or handheld flares.
 
Refueler said:
I too saw those before and wanted some ...

I seem to recall the ones I saw - had a 'gun' holder for the flare and I think there was a question about the laws governing their use ... whether they were classed as VERY flares or not ..
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AIUI the Verey pistol fired flares in a somewhat similar way (but larger and more visible), and required a firearms licence; but the miniflares do not.
 
blackbeard said:
AIUI the Verey pistol fired flares in a somewhat similar way (but larger and more visible), and required a firearms licence; but the miniflares do not.
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I know the Very Pistol does ... I just seemed to recall that years ago when I saw mini-flares - there was talk about this.

Funny thing though - on the Seismic Ships we carried Very Pistols and white flare cartridges ... but never saw a licence !!
 
penberth3 said:
Sorry, two questions in my post, so not sure which one you're saying "yes" to. I was just thinking most of the time armed forces/CG/air ambulance etc., are away from base they manage OK without wind sock or smoke. Agreed smoke can show location, but is it essential for showing wind to a pilot?
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I'd say it was useful to have an indication of wind direction if there isn't anything on sight to indicate it.

Heading in to wind gives additional lift without using more power, , I'm not.good at explaining which is why I never became an instructor but airflow from wind increases lift with out more power being required due to air flow over the rotors or wings that doesn't require engine force.

W.
 
I am very pleased with my electronic flares - they will have to do, as i really cant justify carrying explosives on board.
 
capnsensible said:
They burn, not explode. Your gas cylinder for cooking is likely many times more dangerous.......
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Solent .... Gas bottle went up on a boat on a mooring ... it was totally unrecognisable after .... This was a few years ago - but made the papers and magazines. I assume a few here will remember ..

As regards flares ... just to illustrate their 'burn' ....

US Gulf ... Sesimic Vessel Orion Arctic ... I'm on bridge and we have a vessel not turning away from our cable ... I get out the Flare Pistol and a couple of cartirdges ... French Mission Chief comes on bridge - they can 'see' the prop noise of the ship on trace ...
He insists he wants to fire the flare ....
BANG ... but as he did - his hand dropped and the flare hit the water ............ we had a brilliant view of the burning flare sinking ever deeper and deeper ... only extinguishing when it was spent.
Another Seismic vessel of same company on a certain N. African medi coast ... where near our shoot area was a mined area ... supposedly cleared - but their Military warned us to stay well clear of it !! They even sent out a patrol boat to keep us clear.
Couple of days into the shoot ... patrol boat leaves ... we carry on shoot. What looks like a fishing boat then appears and is heading for us ... and going to pass CLOSE ! Out comes pistol ... and cartridge ... one of the other Mates is on bridge chatting with me and says .. I'll do this one Nige ... so he loads the pistol ... cocks it ... goes out and fires ...
All hell broke loose ... as the flare was flying round the deck of the 'fishing boat' bouncing of bulkheads and hatch ... locals on board jumping this way and that !! Finally the flare is out ... locals then pull the tarp of a 50cal Machine gun on deck and point it at us !!

I frantically called up their Military command - who then told them to stand down ... it was our replacement guard boat !!

Back to RYA pyros !!
 
Refueler said:
Solent .... Gas bottle went up on a boat on a mooring ... it was totally unrecognisable after .... This was a few years ago - but made the papers and magazines. I assume a few here will remember ..

As regards flares ... just to illustrate their 'burn' ....

US Gulf ... Sesimic Vessel Orion Arctic ... I'm on bridge and we have a vessel not turning away from our cable ... I get out the Flare Pistol and a couple of cartirdges ... French Mission Chief comes on bridge - they can 'see' the prop noise of the ship on trace ...
He insists he wants to fire the flare ....
BANG ... but as he did - his hand dropped and the flare hit the water ............ we had a brilliant view of the burning flare sinking ever deeper and deeper ... only extinguishing when it was spent.
Another Seismic vessel of same company on a certain N. African medi coast ... where near our shoot area was a mined area ... supposedly cleared - but their Military warned us to stay well clear of it !! They even sent out a patrol boat to keep us clear.
Couple of days into the shoot ... patrol boat leaves ... we carry on shoot. What looks like a fishing boat then appears and is heading for us ... and going to pass CLOSE ! Out comes pistol ... and cartridge ... one of the other Mates is on bridge chatting with me and says .. I'll do this one Nige ... so he loads the pistol ... cocks it ... goes out and fires ...
All hell broke loose ... as the flare was flying round the deck of the 'fishing boat' bouncing of bulkheads and hatch ... locals on board jumping this way and that !! Finally the flare is out ... locals then pull the tarp of a 50cal Machine gun on deck and point it at us !!

I frantically called up their Military command - who then told them to stand down ... it was our replacement guard boat !!

Back to RYA pyros !!
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Good points. Now, surely it's intuitively obvious that pyros are a risk in the face of modern safety equipment, infrastructure and technology?

They are an economic, safety and environmental liability.
 
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