The red diesel irony.

[volvopaul]

I can remember filling up in Weymouth at 12 p a litre thinking it was expensive because I bought my fuel from one of my clients in cans , that was the summer of 1999, look how things have changed .
I don’t think anyone at the top whether it be the government or the RYA really care what happens to boating or boaters , it’s always been taped as a rich mans hobby .
I know for a fact it’s open to everyone at every level , it’s a hobby where people get by to have fun.
I know people who can drink £200 in a night out , they don’t moan about the price of drink every time the chancellor announces his budget .
I’m afraid it’s been coming a long time , and once we are on white or DERV as it’s known then it will never come back , EU or no EU the British government stand to gain from the extra taxation.

Quite how the marina suppliers will deal with it no one knows , I’ve already heard from a few marina operators that there is no way they will be investing in a tank clean and the cost of the first initial fill up at the full rate , remember at the moment I doubt they will be paying much more than 40 p a litre , then they do there unpaid bit for the Hmrc . When it’s white only they will be paying out more than twice as much to fill there tanks , that cost will most definitely be passed on to the end user , so expect to pay a lot more than Tesco’s.

What does need sorting is the taxation rate for heating and power generating or will that disappear overnight too, I’d say it will otherwise people will be buying white to put in there cars , if of course the rebate applies , I doubt it very much .

The inland waterway users won’t feel it much , but it will hurt a bit more on the coast , again I wonder how the likes of Premier and MDL will turn what’s left in there tanks around to make it pure white that comes out.

The next question is will it ever be policed , again I doubt it very much it will just be a ban on the sale of partially taxed red.

Happy boating folks.

 

[Momac]

Must admit I don't see this as a change to white diesel.
Presumably red diesel for domestic uses will remain available at lower duty as at present?

 

[gordmac]

Perhaps that notice will be withdrawn or changed after the budget?
I presumed fishing vessels etc presently need pay no duty on diesel , so don't need to claim it back.

They pay duty on petrol and claim it back. I suspect marina fuel may remain red but be full tax and if commercials use it they reclaim duty as with petrol.

 

[oldgit]

Recent proramme on R4 about the sheer numbers of road vehicles using " Red".
BBC crew waited outside a couple of garages in Midlands which sold marked diesel and watched motorists filling up with red and driving off.
Our local garage has a very "laissez faire" approach when selling fuel at their "agricultural" pump.
Most local farms probably buy their fuel in 10.000 Litre drops, nipping down to top up with 200L in a few old oil drums will not happen.
Car drivers did seem reluctant to comment when asked if they were aware they were breaking the law.

If you are moored in a posh marina you might wonder just why the revenue would be so concerned about tiny amount of tax lost via the "Red" derogation rules.
Many might no doubt be totally suprised at just how many boats are running around on fuel sourced from farmyards/ central heating tanks/ lorry and contractors plant yards etc !
Put this all together and it might become obvious why we will all be buying white soon regardless of source. ?

 

[Blue Sunray]

I can remember filling up in Weymouth at 12 p a litre thinking it was expensive because I bought my fuel from one of my clients in cans , that was the summer of 1999, look how things have changed .
I don’t think anyone at the top whether it be the government or the RYA really care what happens to boating or boaters , it’s always been taped as a rich mans hobby .
I know for a fact it’s open to everyone at every level , it’s a hobby where people get by to have fun.
I know people who can drink £200 in a night out , they don’t moan about the price of drink every time the chancellor announces his budget .
I’m afraid it’s been coming a long time , and once we are on white or DERV as it’s known then it will never come back , EU or no EU the British government stand to gain from the extra taxation.

I certainly don't think that the RYA care at all what happens to motor boaters. As a member I get a periodic 'news' type email from them. It seems to contain exclusively stories on wind powered boating and I take that as compete reflection of those that run that organisation, supposedly in the interests of all boaters.

 

[volvopaul]

I certainly don't think that the RYA care at all what happens to motor boaters. As a member I get a periodic 'news' type email from them. It seems to contain exclusively stories on wind powered boating and I take that as compete reflection of those that run that organisation, supposedly in the interests of all boaters.

I wasn’t going to say anything about the RYA and red diesel but now you have mentioned it there is a clue into why the RYA have been no help at all with the fuel supply situation, Royal YACHTING association.

 

[volvopaul]

Recent proramme on R4 about the sheer numbers of road vehicles using " Red".
BBC crew waited outside a couple of garages in Midlands which sold marked diesel and watched motorists filling up with red and driving off.
A local garage has a very "laissez faire" approach when selling fuel at their "agricultural" pump.
Most of thr local farms probably buy their fuel in 10.000 Litre drops, nipping down to top up with 200L in a few old oil drums will not happen.
Car drivers did seem reluctant to comment when asked if they were aware they were breaking the law.

If you are moored in a posh marina you might wonder just why the revenue would be so concerned about tiny amount of tax lost via the "Red" derogation rules.
Many might no doubt be totally suprised at just how many boats are running around on fuel sourced from farmyards/ central heating tanks/ lorry and contractors plant yards etc !
Put this all together and it might become obvious why we will all be buying white soon regardless of source. ?

Exactly I know plenty of boaters that bring there own fuel at Farm rate duty , has anyone ever done anything about it , no because ther is no one to do anything about it .
For those than can be bothered I bet there will be more boaters purchasing a 1000 litre tank sat in there back garden .

 

[jamie langstone]

Makes you wounder if the price of twin engine boats will reduce in value due to buyers not willing to pay the increase in fuel price.

 

[oldgit]

Makes you wonder if the price of twin engine boats will reduce in value

Already happening. Some boat clubs suffering because of this. Skippers who no longer boat have no incentive to put their boat on to the market because boats of a certain "vintage" have very little appeal to todays buyers due to age and running costs .
Results in boats not moving for years and moorings being clogged up with boats that probably will never go anywhere again.

 

[Mr Googler]

Ain’t that the truth......90% of the boats in my marina never move.....accept lower in the water!

 

[dunedin]

I wasn’t going to say anything about the RYA and red diesel but now you have mentioned it there is a clue into why the RYA have been no help at all with the fuel supply situation, Royal YACHTING association.

What is the definition of "yacht" then? As in the first part of "motor yacht" (or "sailing yacht").

I think you will find the RYA campaigned very hard to prolong our access to red diesel, including the (bizarre but beneficial) 60/40 rule. This wasn't for the benefit of dinghy sailors, nor particularly for sailing boats where diesel is a tiny part of running costs.

 

[oldgit]

Ain’t that the truth......90% of the boats in my marina never move.....accept lower in the water!

You and your fellow marina moorers probably have to find several thousand pounds a year to let their boat go green, a very good incentive to flog it if not used.
Imagine that same mooring only costing in the hundreds.

 

[oldgit]

What is the definition of "yacht" then? As in the first part of "motor yacht" (or "sailing yacht").

I think you will find the RYA campaigned very hard to prolong our access to red diesel, including the (bizarre but beneficial) 60/40 rule. This wasn't for the benefit of dinghy sailors, nor particularly for sailing boats where diesel is a tiny part of running costs.

Must confess looked long and hard in the pages of the last RYA mag for even a glimpse of a picture of a motorboat. There might have been three and one of those was a an advert.
The entire rest of the magazine was either devoted entirely to yachting (ie Racing and more racing with bit of racing thrown in for light relief) or stuff that yachties would be interested in.
Do well remember the last RYA article published with Mobos in mind.
It featured a boat probably costing the thick end of 500-600K, berthed in a expensive marina probably in the Solent and owned by a jolly young chap who probably did something in the city or owned a gaming software company ?
The kids looked also looked suspiciously clean and happy.

 

[Momac]

Ain’t that the truth......90% of the boats in my marina never move.....accept lower in the water!

I think all marinas have boats that never go out. However 90% seems like a very high percentage.
Not a tax haven where your marina is by any chance ?

 

[Mr Googler]

You and your fellow marina moorers probably have to find several thousand pounds a year to let their boat go green, a very good incentive to flog it if not used.
Imagine that same mooring only costing in the hundreds.

interestingly......you can moor up against the wall for £80 a year for a 30ft boat. Insure it 3rd party only for another £60 and that’s it. Bloody madness and the reason boats are left to slowly sink. Much cheaper than disposing of it. There’s a few lines in the terms that say all boats have to go to sea twice a year.....never enforced.

@MartynG .......low tax environment thankyou ???

 

[Momac]

............ boats of a certain "vintage" have very little appeal to todays buyers due to age and running costs ........
........... boats not moving for years and moorings being clogged up with boats that probably will never go anywhere again.

You are not making it sound attractive .

 

[oldgit]

You are not making it sound attractive .

The situation is suffocating both Yacht and MoBo clubs, growing proportion of boats which rarely move, if ever.
Owners no longer bothering to maintain/visit their boats rendering them likely to breakdown if/when they do move, which compounds the situation.
Owners not using their boats less likely to visit club and use the facilities and a long list of new members waiting for moorings to become vacant .
And the Lord help you if you try to address the problem in any way , never will so many long absent boat owners suddenly appear at an AGM.
None of this has much to do with the price of marine fuel, and more to do with the Silent Generation, than Baby Boomers.

 

[Momac]

I guess if they want to pay to keep their neglected and unused boats in a marina that's their business .
Perhaps the mooring fees are too low?

 

[BruceK]

I guess if they want to pay to keep their neglected and unused boats in a marina that's their business .
Perhaps the mooring fees are too low?

High fees have a worse effect on boat abandonment and "sinkings"

 

[david_bagshaw]

7 pence a gallon in 1970 from a barge chandler on the oise in france.

Sadly I think along with the increase in fuel costs, the crippling increase on waterways licence for anything wider than a narrow boat will definitely hinder all forms of motor boating. on the non EA rivers.
Canal & river Trust have reduced the prompt payment discount from 10% to 5% and ramping up the river licence by 20% over 5 years on account of width, plus any other increase in the basic tariff from next year.

However ...

The worst effect will be FUEL Theft, both from marina and club tanks along with from boats. Haven't seen an effective locking fuel cap on any boat yet.