The red diesel irony.

[wofff]

With less than 1/3 of our winter crops planted, a considerable amount of prime agricultural land under flood water, this would just about be typical of a Government who assume that food grows on the shelves in Tescos.
Perhaps if us Farmers take to the streets you guys might like to join in ? The French are really good at getting their Government's attention this way.

 

[Momac]

Various petitions against a change to white diesel were poorly supported . This lack of support has give the all clear for this sort of change.

The proposal doesn't prohibit the use of red diesel in boats which may be all that is available at fishing ports - even if at full duty price.

Presumably ships and commercial boats will remain duty free? also farm use?

 

[IDAMAY]

Farm use not exempt if the FT report is to be believed. The synopsis I saw referred to agricultural, construction use, etc. It didn`t actually mention shipping or boats although I don`t at all expect they would actually be excluded!

 

[mcanderson]

Nope. Farmers like everyone else need to have a sustainable and economically viable model.

Don’t blame this or any other government

With less than 1/3 of our winter crops planted, a considerable amount of prime agricultural land under flood water, this would just about be typical of a Government who assume that food grows on the shelves in Tescos.
Perhaps if us Farmers take to the streets you guys might like to join in ? The French are really good at getting their Government's attention this way.

 

[superheat6k]

I’m sorry I just don’t get the whole red diesel thing. Yes I boat in the south of France so pay €1.50+ a litre, but if I wanted to spend less on fuel I would buy a sail boat. If I want a motor boat then that is the opportunity cost. But, and it is a big but, the percentage of my annual boating spend on fuel versus everything else is not huge. I spend €2/3000 a year on fuel. My berth is €8000.

So I think the U.K. boater needs to get over it and realise it is going to happen at some stage.

I do concur - keeping a motor boat on the upper Hamble works out ~ £2,000 p.a. cheaper (was a few short years ago ~ £3,000 cheaper) for a 32' boat. Semi empty marinas and insidious price rises of the more traditional yards have eroded the difference, but it still remains cheaper for me to keep Boadicea at the top of the river and pay ~ £1,500 p.a. on fuel, than a 32' raggy who gets where he is going at ~ 5knots and for similar sea time. I have a day range ~ 4 - 5 times that of the raggy. For me fuel is ~ 25% of my annual running costs, and the only factor that is directly proportional to my usage.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

So I think the U.K. boater needs to get over it and realise it is going to happen at some stage.

S two things to say in response to that. Firstly, unlike most Brits boating in the Med, there are many Brits boating in the UK on a very tight budget and any significant increase in fuel prices could drive some out of boating. Secondly, many people like me started boating in the UK when red diesel was dirt cheap like 10-15p/litre and it has been a painful adjustment for many from those carefree days of cheap fuel to today's rip off fuel prices

Yes I agree that in the grand scheme of boating costs for most people, the cost of fuel is not the biggest cost but it is a significant and highly visible cost that makes boating just that bit less pleasurable. And yes I know that it won't be long before fossil fuel powered boating is outlawed completely in many areas

 

[Momac]

I know that it won't be long before fossil fuel powered boating is outlawed completely in many areas

I hope not in the near future.

I can't say I can see any decline in business at the marina where I keep my boat which is on a river .
Already many boats don't seem to go out hardly at all, and some are probably taking root , which is a shame.

Already noticing increased insurance costs so a sharp increase in fuel prices may mean people will change their spending habits . We might, for example, eat out less and cater for ourselves more often which would be no great hardship. I am , in any case , trying to stick to a healthy diet.

I hope not to curtail my boating travels due to fuel costs but in the worst case I would change to a smaller/slower and more economical boat .

I would be keen to go sailing but having tried that the chief officer isn't keen.

.

 

[dunedin]

I hope not to curtail my boating travels due to fuel costs but in the worst case I would change to a smaller/slower and more economical boat .

And isn’t that the outcome that increasing fuel duty is trying to do - encourage people to burn less fuel?

(As well as fund all the money tree promises and B..t losses, of course)

 

[petem]

Really. Surprised. We pay about 1:35 in Mallorca.

That's because it's Mallorca!

 

[PCUK]

If already VAT registered no difference in o/all costs

VAT is not part of the subsidy and is reclaimed separately.

 

[PCUK]

This will hit farmers very hard and increase construction costs. How will it affect people who use red diesel for home heating? It will also hit the already hard pressed motor boat owner and lose marinas and surrounding businesses visitor revenue. I've not seen an electric tractor or combine come to that!

Having had my rant I now see that there is no mention of fishing and commercial vessels. Obviously if the fishing industry is included that will finish most of them off meaning that EU negotiations can go ahead with no worries about giving away our fishing waters as we will have no fleet to fish with.

 

[PCUK]

S two things to say in response to that. Firstly, unlike most Brits boating in the Med, there are many Brits boating in the UK on a very tight budget and any significant increase in fuel prices could drive some out of boating. Secondly, many people like me started boating in the UK when red diesel was dirt cheap like 10-15p/litre and it has been a painful adjustment for many from those carefree days of cheap fuel to today's rip off fuel prices

Yes I agree that in the grand scheme of boating costs for most people, the cost of fuel is not the biggest cost but it is a significant and highly visible cost that makes boating just that bit less pleasurable. And yes I know that it won't be long before fossil fuel powered boating is outlawed completely in many areas

I can do better than that, When I first filled my previous boat in 1987 red diesel was 13p A GALLON which was less then 3p a litre!

 

[oldgit]

In the UK.
The age range in our club is pretty narrow, we have about 100 skippers with boats.
Your a whippersnapper if 50 or under. Large proportion of members are well into their 60s and 70s many into their 80s.
The ones who complain regards fuel prices , are those who have been boating for donkeys years and constantly refer back to the good old days, a trip to Calais once only cost 4/6d . etc etc
Is the price of fuel actually what is stopping them boating, would suggest that many boats remain idle, simply due to loss of interest (been there done that) and being polite, loss of sprightliness.

Very rarely, if ever, does the subject of fuel cost come up from the younger folks.

 

[asteven221]

In the UK.
The age range in our club is pretty narrow, we have about 100 skippers with boats.
Your a whippersnapper if 50 or under. Large proportion of members are well into their 60s and 70s many into their 80s.
The ones who complain regards fuel prices , are those who have been boating for donkeys years and constantly refer back to the good old days, a trip to Calais once only cost 4/6d . etc etc
Is the price of fuel actually what is stopping them boating, would suggest that many boats remain idle, simply due to loss of interest (been there done that) and being polite, loss of sprightliness.

Very rarely, if ever, does the subject of fuel cost come up from the younger folks.

That's not my experience. Almost every person I talk to young and old always mentions fuel costs. Actually, sorry I am lying. I don't think I can recall meeting anyone under 30 who owns a post year 2000 Fairline/Princess/Sealine etc.... 38 to 50 feet and uses it most weekends. Any "youngster" I see tends to go for RIBS and fast boats under 30ft, i.e. day boats.

I don't fully agree with the argument that the cost of fuel only represents a small fraction of boat ownership. It might be to you, however it's a big fraction if you happen to be the proud owner of a Princess 45 for example, circa 1990 vintage kept on a £1000 mooring. So you pay £1000 for you mooring and £8000 for fuel! Obviously a sweeping statement, but my point is that the variables are many and there are many factors. Fuel cost does matter to many people and I am sure it alters boating and the choices made.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I can do better than that, When I first filled my previous boat in 1987 red diesel was 13p A GALLON which was less then 3p a litre!

Mmm I started in 1990 and now I'm wondering whether the price I quoted was per gallon or per litre ? Did we even have litres in those days? All I remember is that I felt it was that cheap that filling up with diesel was more of an inconvenience than a cost and we thought nothing of whizzing over to Guernsey from Southampton and back for the weekend at 20kts just for the hell of it

Btw we used to buy our fuel from Mr Diesel who sold it from his tug on the River Itchen. Lovely couple. I guess they've passed on now

Nowadays I would definitely think twice about doing a round trip of 250nm just for the hell of it because of the exorbitant cost of diesel. Sad really

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Interesting to read this. My recent sail-to-power boat (re)search was informed to some degree by the potenial fuel costs and I'd set a goal of trying to get <5 L/mile as being an "acceptable" cost. But compared to berthing or depreciation it's not a major factor.

 

[oldgit]

That's not my experience. Almost every person I talk to young and old always mentions fuel costs. Actually, sorry I am lying. I don't think I can recall meeting anyone under 30 who owns a post year 2000 Fairline/Princess/Sealine etc.... 38 to 50 feet and uses it most weekends. Any "youngster" I see tends to go for RIBS and fast boats under 30ft, i.e. day boats.

I don't fully agree with the argument that the cost of fuel only represents a small fraction of boat ownership. It might be to you, however it's a big fraction if you happen to be the proud owner of a Princess 45 for example, circa 1990 vintage kept on a £1000 mooring. So you pay £1000 for you mooring and £8000 for fuel! Obviously a sweeping statement, but my point is that the variables are many and there are many factors. Fuel cost does matter to many people and I am sure it alters boating and the choices made.

I know of only one place in the South/South East with pontoons and facilites where you can moor a Princess 45 for £1000 PA. Be interested to know of another.
There are two P45 on our moorings.
One of them never moves, owner owns a readymix cement outfit with half a dozen drivers, doubt marine fuel price is a problem.
Another P45 is moored immediately behind me, know the skipper rather well, his recent trips last year included cruises to the Solent, France and the Channel Isles,boat is well used and no marina queen.
His view of fuel is basically if you think the price of fuel is preventing you going boating, either your boat is too big or you have the wrong hobby..
The club fuel price is considerably below market rate and is genuinely sold at cost plus tax.
This "cheap" fuel appears to make precious little difference in boat movement. Those that want to go boating go boating, suspect many who do not use their boats are highly unlikely to go anywhere even if fuel went back down to 10 p agallon.

 

[PCUK]

I downsized from 40 foot steel using one gallon a mile to 27ft where Im hoping to get nearer to 5MPG. So fuel cost was the deciding factor here.

 

[MINESAPINT2]

Heard this this morning on Farming Today on Radio 4 but they only mentioned it affecting farmers - well they would.

We are all expecting (UK) regulations to change for us pleasure boaters but I am wondering if it will affect other vessels.

1. Commercial fishing vessels?

2. Charter angling vessels?

3. Wildlife watching vessels?

The argument that allowing farmers and commercial fishermen cut price diesel reduces the cost of food for all of us does not stack up for Charter angling and Wildlife watching vessels and the like.

Mike

 

[Forty_Two]

Just looked out my first logbook when I had a Grand Banks 32 single engine.

Fuel from Beaulieu was 99p/gallon July 1982.

Even more amazing, overnight at Yarmouth £2.24p, up from £1.60 on 25th Oct 1980!

Seems unbelievable but true?