The end of owner maintenance ...

[longjohnsilver]

Just looked on the site and this is what it presently says



I see no mention of experience in the text.. As written it is clear the pen pushers are expecting people to have some bit of paper in order to check even rudimentary items like fan belts, oil and water.

Write to them for clarification!

 

[Seajet]

Just looked on the site and this is what it presently says



I see no mention of experience in the text.. As written it is clear the pen pushers are expecting people to have some bit of paper in order to check even rudimentary items like fan belts, oil and water.

We should react asking how qualified they are to hold a dangerous weapon like a pen, - mightier than a sword, to use electrical items like computers they must be qualified electricians, and must undergo safety inspections and qualifications to avoid paper cuts - that should keep them quiet for a while

 

[Daydream believer]

I am afraid I am correct.... You believe what you want

I have worked in the construction industry for as long as I can recall
I hung my first door at the age of 12 . I was site agent at the age of 18. For the last 12 years I worked as a consultant. I retired at 70 from an industry I really loved my whole working life
I have been involved in hundreds of sites small & large & employed possibly 2000 people in my building & joinery businesses.
I think that I have a wide enough experience to comment with some authority

I can assure you that the introduction and gradual improvement of CDM & other associated regs in the construction industry has been one of the most significant changes leading to an improvement to the health of its workers.

I forget your exact statement as I cannot be bothered to trawl back through the thread; but to suggest that they are there just for the benefit of pen pushers & the like, is, as I said earlier, a most ill informed & stupid statement.
It is , if one cares to look, backed up by plenty of data to show how accidents & injuries, short & long term, have been reduced as a result of their introduction.
You are NOT correct. End of!!

 

[penberth3]

...I forget your exact statement as I cannot be bothered to trawl back through the thread; but to suggest that they are there just for the benefit of pen pushers & the like, is, as I said earlier, a most ill informed & stupid statement...

Also, the "pen pushers" producing the guidance will all be experienced mariners and engineers.

 

[Quandary]

With nothing to do on Wed. afternoon I spent an entertaining hour sitting on the viewing platform opposite Mallaig boatyard licking ice cream as they rushed to get three trawlers ready to launch on that evenings big spring tide, they were bending on and welding galv. steel strakes, three men standing on a horizontal ladder spanning between the staging , underneath a guy was antifouling beside another swinging a sledge hammer at the arms of the cradle, they got the job done and all three went in, the masking tape coming off as they moved the last one down the slipway, two of the guys in a wee boat in front of the cradle, all the workers were obviously marine professionals with experience but I am convinced that some of their methods were neither safe or best practice. No hi vis. or hard hats but most at least had their caps on back to front.

 

[fisherman]

In re the building industry, to be fair there were too many accidents, it had to be overhauled. Even four years ago I was told to go up 32 ft, on a ladder stood on a youngman board bridging between two scaff towers, sat on ground which sloped two ways, across the building and away from it, because one scaff tower wouldn't reach.

 

[Kukri]

Also, the "pen pushers" producing the guidance will all be experienced mariners and engineers.

Really?

 

[Daydream believer]

, all the workers were obviously marine professionals with experience but I am convinced that some of their methods were neither safe or best practice. No hi vis. or hard hats but most at least had their caps on back to front.

Marine-- Well they were working in the marine industry
Professionals- Well one assumes that they were getting paid so that makes it sort of right
With experience-- I very much doubt it; because anyone with true experience will begin to understand the stupidity of unsafe working practices & refuse to work in such a manner. Not only do they put themselves at risk but often others too.

 

[penberth3]

Really?

Yes, really. Where do you think the MCA staff come from?

 

[Kukri]

Yes, really. Where do you think the MCA staff come from?

I have no idea. I’ve only been the managing owner of around five per cent by Register tonnage of the ships on the UK Register for the past decade and sat on a couple of MCA committees, so I wouldn’t have a clue, but I did rather have the impression that whilst some MCA surveyors are experienced mariners and engineers, many more are naval architects, and the remainder of the staff have not been to sea in any capacity, and there are hardly any yachtspeople in the organisation, which is now headed by the former head of a housing charity.

 

[Daydream believer]

Also, the "pen pushers" producing the guidance will all be experienced mariners and engineers.

I do tire of the constant insult against office workers & the use of the " pen pusher" term

What is exactly wrong with people who work in offices using best practice to help devise this legislation & put it to the wider audience for consultation?

It does not take a lot of savvy to gather & analyse the data of findings gathered by the MCA, RNLI & others. If (for example) one finds that yachts& mobos get into trouble due to engine failure, it must be clear that something needs to be addressed. I am sure that someone, somewhere, has identified a problem. Possibly the problem is us & we care not to admit it.

If it is then found that much of the problem is due to failure by idiot owners not properly maintaining their equipment, then is not the answer to try & resolve the issue. Self regulation & efforts by the RYA & CA may have been tried & only found to be of limited success, if it is found to be insufficient, why is it that someone in an office cannot sit & devise some alternative to improve things?

& why should the community at large not strive for improvement?

Are you telling me that a bloke who does a bit of maintenance on his knackered old Westerly, or similar boat, would be better at wording this or even having a clue how to go about it?
In most cases I think not. He will just complain about additional regulation.( I am not yet convinced that it is regulation, as I said in a very early post) Something that he may not admit to needing, but it is possibly him that needs it most.
Does it need a fisherman or a tug boat skipper or some other marine professional. Why cannot a marine surveyor, architect, clerk, or similar not do the job whilst sitting in an office.It just needs someone to determine the processes, assess the risk & work out how best to do it. Then present it for consultation.

Like it or not we need the man in the office.

 

[Simondjuk]

Also, the "pen pushers" producing the guidance will all be experienced mariners and engineers.

3.3 An inflatable lifejacket will normally contain a metallic gas canister and firing mechanism and it is important after each use to rinse the lifejacket with fresh water and hang it up to dry after each usage in order to prevent unnecessary corrosion

 

[FlyingGoose]

3.3 An inflatable lifejacket will normally contain a metallic gas canister and firing mechanism and it is important after each use to rinse the lifejacket with fresh water and hang it up to dry after each usage in order to prevent unnecessary corrosion

This is good practice I dive and wash all my gear after a dive in Fresh Water to prevent corosion , your life jacket is no different if it gets a good soaking , I would always rinse my sailing gear in fresh water after a good soaking of the salty kind
But that is me , look after your gear your gear looks after you

 

[Simondjuk]

Oh dear.

 

[Kukri]

I do tire of the constant insult against office workers & the use of the " pen pusher" term

What is exactly wrong with people who work in offices using best practice to help devise this legislation & put it to the wider audience for consultation?

It does not take a lot of savvy to gather & analyse the data of findings gathered by the MCA, RNLI & others. If (for example) one finds that yachts& mobos get into trouble due to engine failure, it must be clear that something needs to be addressed. I am sure that someone, somewhere, has identified a problem. Possibly the problem is us & we care not to admit it.

If it is then found that much of the problem is due to failure by idiot owners not properly maintaining their equipment, then is not the answer to try & resolve the issue. Self regulation & efforts by the RYA & CA may have been tried & only found to be of limited success, if it is found to be insufficient, why is it that someone in an office cannot sit & devise some alternative to improve things?

& why should the community at large not strive for improvement?

Are you telling me that a bloke who does a bit of maintenance on his knackered old Westerly, or similar boat, would be better at wording this or even having a clue how to go about it?
In most cases I think not. He will just complain about additional regulation.( I am not yet convinced that it is regulation, as I said in a very early post) Something that he may not admit to needing, but it is possibly him that needs it most.
Does it need a fisherman or a tug boat skipper or some other marine professional. Why cannot a marine surveyor, architect, clerk, or similar not do the job whilst sitting in an office.It just needs someone to determine the processes, assess the risk & work out how best to do it. Then present it for consultation.

Like it or not we need the man in the office.

A lovely rant; we are happy to award you both ears and the tail, but it has nothing at all to do with the consultation for these six draft MGNs (not even MINs, be it noted, but full bore MGNs) which are triggered by the Judge’s findings and the comments of the Jury in the ‘Cheeki Rafiki’ trial, and the arrival at the MCA of a hyper active Chief Executive who was much too close to the Grenfell Tower fire in his last job and who is therefore determined to lay about himself with a sledgehammer in order to crack the nut of the Cheeki Rafiki trial.

 

[FlyingGoose]

Oh dear.

How sad never Mind :encouragement:

 

[Simondjuk]

Did the fundamental difference between dive gear and the piece of advice given in the MGN pass you by?

 

[Tomahawk]

...triggered by the Judge’s findings and the comments of the Jury in the ‘Cheeki Rafiki’ trial, and the arrival at the MCA of a hyper active Chief Executive who was much too close to the Grenfell Tower fire in his last job and who is therefore determined to lay about himself with a sledgehammer in order to crack the nut of the Cheeki Rafiki trial.

Where is the evidence of a oroblem that needs regulation?

One boat suffers a catastrophic failure and half a dozen innocent young people die.

Yet every day people are injured and killed in a multitude of other ways where the cause can be easily identified and addressed. In terms of numbers, serious pleasure boat accidents don’t even amount to a dry fart stacked against other water related fatalities. And of those yachting pleasure boat accidents that do happen, how many are attributable to non compliance with the content of these MGN's? In short, if the government wants to reduce water related accidents... they should be looking elsewhere.

 

[penberth3]

3.3 An inflatable lifejacket will normally contain a metallic gas canister and firing mechanism and it is important after each use to rinse the lifejacket with fresh water and hang it up to dry after each usage in order to prevent unnecessary corrosion

You've quoted without comment - do you have a problem or not with sensible guidance, clearly written?

 

[Simondjuk]

You've quoted without comment - do you have a problem or not with sensible guidance, clearly written?

It's neither.