The end of owner maintenance ...

Minn said:
On the basis of conversations with friends in the MCA, whom I’m certainly not going to name, what seems to have happened here is that the failure of the prosecution in the Cheeki Rafiki case and the criticism of the MCA in that case caused huge embarrassment to the MCA and their new hyper active CEO, recruited from a housing association, fresh from Grenfell Tower, has directed that no stone be left in-turned to make sure that the MCA is never as embarrassed again.
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In which case the resolution is simples.

To not allow a coded vessel to be operated as a private one.
To require that if a coded vessel is removed from the register, the removal process includes a decommissioning report to be passed to the insurers.
If a coded vessel is removed rom the register, it has to go through the full registration survey process again before it can be used as a commercial vessel.
 
Tomahawk said:
In which case, the new CE needs the sack. There just isn't the evidence to support a whole raft of extra regulations

I found the RoSPA website and from there a sub group dedicated to water safety. They publish an annual report on water accidents by area and activity. https://www.nationalwatersafety.org.uk/waid/reports-and-data/
Looking in detail at the annual reports, the number of boating deaths (sail, PWC, mobo) is tiny compared to the overall numbers of water related fatalities.

Indeed we all know the most dangerous part of sailing is getting from the boat to shore on a tender! second to that, not falling in the marina.
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That is interesting re ROSPA. One of my motorcycling chums was the spokesperson for ROSPA some years ago. He could often be seen on TV in his finery making pronouncements and comment on safety related issues.

In a previous job he was a Queens Messenger. He wore the Greyhound lapel badge of his office with great pride.

If required, he might point towards relevent data that might be benificial.
 
Just pulled these numbers from the RoSPA website


Water accidents from RoSPA website

Year Sailing Mobo affected by MGN Overall water deaths
2013 11 11 22 381
2014 7 9 16 338
2015 10 10 20 321
2016 5 9 14 285
2017 2 10 12 255
2018 3 6 9 263




Sodding stupid web site won't allow me to space the columns or tab the numbers..
 
IU
Tomahawk said:
Just pulled these numbers from the RoSPA website


Water accidents from RoSPA website

Year Sailing Mobo affected by MGN Overall water deaths
2013 11 11 22 381
2014 7 9 16 338
2015 10 10 20 321
2016 5 9 14 285
2017 2 10 12 255
2018 3 6 9 263




Sodding stupid web site won't allow me to space the columns or tab the numbers..
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Thank you very much indeed. Might I suggest passing those numbers on to Stuart Carruthers of the RYA as well as using them yourself - and can we all use them?
 
I got them from the RoSPA website... water safety pages by opening the annual fatalities report .
Somewhere above is a link to the web page itself with all the annual reports.
 
Tomahawk said:
Just pulled these numbers from the RoSPA website


Water accidents from RoSPA website

Year Sailing Mobo affected by MGN Overall water deaths
2013 ,...11..... ,11 .................. 22.................. 381
2014 ......7 ....... 9 ................. 16 ...................338
2015 .....10 ......10 ................. 20 ..................321
2016 ..... 5 ........ 9 ..................14 ..................285
2017 ..... 2 ........10 ................12 ....................255
2018 ......3 .........6 ...................9 ....................263
Sodding stupid web site won't allow me to space the columns or tab the numbers..
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You need a bloke in an office to help you out
Easy when you know how:encouragement:
Not quite right, but that is how I will justify my job, plus it will need a further 55 updates of the same document.
It will also need more intensive research to determine how many lives were actually saved & therefore, do not appear on the above data sheets.
May need some extra staff for that though.
That is how it is done when you are experienced in these matters:encouragement:

Just wish I knew what "MGN" meant:nonchalance:
 
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There are three grades of publication by the MCA:

“M” notice (Merchant Shippng Notice) = “do this, or else”.

MGN (Marine Guidance Note) = “if you don’t do this, the Courts will find that you were at fault and your insurers may have a sense of humour failure”.

MIN (Marine Information Note) = “Here is a good idea, we’d like it if you did this and it might save your life...”
 
OK folks..

I have taken note of all the comments above and put them into a single document..
It's 7 pages long! though I may be able to shorten it if I do a bit of editing.

Rather than post it here.. please PM me and I will send you a copy for you to jiggle about a bit (so it's clearly not a simple cut and paste job) and send on your own account.
 
Minn said:
There are three grades of publication by the MCA:

“M” notice (Merchant Shippng Notice) = “do this, or else”.

MGN (Marine Guidance Note) = “if you don’t do this, the Courts will find that you were at fault and your insurers may have a sense of humour failure”.

MIN (Marine Information Note) = “Here is a good idea, we’d like it if you did this and it might save your life...”
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MSN Merchant Shipping notice, or if you google, Marine Surveyor Notice. Here's the small FV one, just FYI

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...-practice-for-safety-of-small-fishing-vessels

Worth reading, see where you might end up.
 
Why on earth would it?????

Its the merchant shipping notice regarding the cpmmercial coding of small fishing boats.

Its got nothing to do whatsoever with liesure craft owners......
 
halcyon said:
Now if this is common across the marine industry you may need a qualified engineer/person to do a job that he/she may not be insured to do the job, catch 22.
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Are you suggesting that we will need licenced engineers just like the aircraft industry?
 
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Minn said:
Were fishing boats as closely regulated in the past? Or has this crept up on them?
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Once again, the earliest MSN regarding fishing vessels is dated 1st July 1975, so hardly.

So again again, all Im seeing is over reaction to a non event. How many people have (correctly) dripped to the MCA and RYA and got the same 'dont panic' response recorded on this thread??

Anxiety for no reason.
 
This from the last page of the consultation document..

4.1. ..... In considering the responses we will apply appropriate weight to those from organisations and individuals with specialist knowledge of the subject area.

In other words they are probably going to ignore everyone they don't like
 
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