The cruising life .. Men v women outlook

We are very fortunate in that both SWMBO and I have an equal passion for sailing and are never happier than when on board. Believe me I count my blessings :)

We have met many couples where the man is living the dream and his wife is indulging him. And a few more where that wifely patience has been further strained by the imperious commands shouted intolerently by the skipper from the helm.

Amusingly, we met one couple where the guy was living the dream and after 3 years had had enough. Only trouble was his wife had learned to love the life and wild horses would not drag her back to her old life.

Enjoy it whilst you can is the conclusion I have come to, whether that be 1 season or 10.
 
There have been some wonderful replies and I thank you for that. It just shows the variety ofpeople cruising out there and thank whoever for that.
I believe you have to be open and candid with each other when doing something like this for you BOTH to getmaximum enjoyment out of it and if one or the other does not like something then say so and something may be done.
I love long passages and just feel as one with the boat when sailing. My wife, like a good few ladies on here does not like them so much but will put up with them if we have no choice. She too has fears about being too far from land if something happens. I am aware of this so where possible we will do day sails which we have done all the way around France. If we do have to do a longer sail I will try and set out in the late evening so she can sleep through as much as possible and then take over in th daylight when I can cat nap close by her.
This is our way and others will do it differently.

It is really good to get views of women sailors although I fear most replys will come from those who love the life. Those women who join their partners from time to time are unlikley to go home and join in with the forums.

There are those who intend to join the cruising life as soon as possible and will read magazines, blogs and the forums. Again the articles are produced by those who love the life and may be a bit biased. Please don't get me wrong, for me there is no better life and on the whole my wife is enjoying it more and more but it is far harder to adapt than me. There are conciderations that should be mentioned before joining this life so peopleare aware of both sides but the positives do far outweigh the negatives.

I know that little things we men ignore or brush aside can play on a womans mind and get her downbut if you know these and discuss them or find a solution things are far easier.

Women do tend to miss friends an family more so try and sort out skype and get a wi fi booster. Make sure you winter where there are other cruiser who can speak the same language. Seagulls don't make for good conversational company. Arrange for friends or family to visit or winter near an airport so if need be she can go home for a few weeks in winter. My wife has got her own "escape pot" so if she needs to get home urgently for any rason she knows she has the finances and means in place to do so. It is her confort blanket.

Laundry can be a pain and very expensive in colder climates. Finding food everyone enjoys. Worring about a long passage, showers. They all add up and what may seem a small problem can add up. Try and find a solution before you go and life will, I promise be far easier on you both.

This was not meant to be a negative post but one to balance up things and make life a little easier by concidering both sides. If you are aware there is a problem then there is also a solution. I am also not trying to be sexist but just general as I know there are you ladies who love sailing and I have no doubt are a ar better and able sailor than I.

I was also looking for a womens point of view as us males sometimes need a good kick where it hurts to take other views into account and if I can do anything to make my wifes life more enjoyable then this post has been worth it.
 
Hey Nostradamus great thread, I have just read through it and so much of it really does relate, I even had to check that my wife had not created another user name as Mrs Springy!! all rather spookily familiar.

We set off this year but not as full time liveaboards. My wife loves the sailing but not the long passages but I think committing to this lifestyle full time for us would be a step too far. Like many men I enjoy the boat and everything that goes with it including the maintenance and my wife takes a pride in the boat keeping it clean and tidying up after me.

After living ashore there comes a reality check when you have no freezer, washing machine and all the other things we take for granted on land and while we are both happy to forego these they take on far more significance when everything else is conspiring against you, it helps when its raining if you can take the view that its just a clearing up shower.

We are not going to commit full time and an extended trip back home to friends and family tells me that our part time status suits both of us, probably not what you wanted to hear but the period back on land charges the batteries and we always look forward to getting back to the boat.

There is no shame in having to modify your goal and the ability to read your partner is a skill that most of us lack, I applaud your ability to raise the question.

BUT, sitting here on the sofa typing this with barely 7hrs of daylight and not very warm, "The other mans grass looks definitely greener"

Have a good Christmas, I am sure you will make the right decision for you and your family
 
Chris_Robb said:
How about going through the canals? for Her in doors, this was the only way. I have the major problem that Her In Doors does not like being on board for more than a 3 week period, so we are planning June and September this year. I don't particularly like being alone for a long time, so in the last couple of years we had a succession of friends for 2 weeks, which was fun, but very tiring, and not what I had originally hoped for - ie wondering without a detailed plan.

So I have to decide whether I bring her home this year - but other things get in the way - Weddings - in June July and August!!!! so getting back (via the canals) becomes a real juggle as marina costs are sooo high in the summer if we have to leave the boat for a week at a time.

Organising a cruise is just so much easier if the wife is on board full time..... But you have to accept the situation and make the best of it. And yes, when we got married she knew what I wanted to do......
Click to expand...

Shouldn't that be 'Her Aboard'? :D
 
This is from my wife Cathy

"I’ve never considered myself to be a ‘real’ sailor and still don’t. My husband is the sailor and the idea of living on board as we made our way slowly to the eastern Med was his dream originally. But I didn’t just ‘go along’ with it. I jumped in eagerly with both feet; giving up my job and leaving family and friends for what I knew would be long periods of time.

What made it do-able for me was the fact that we didn’t give up our house in the UK, preferring to buy a cheaper AWB (Bavaria 38) which we have found perfect for our needs. We also set ourselves a time limit. We would give it two years then if either of us didn’t like the lifestyle we would think again. But I also knew that if I really hated it I could go home at any time. Only once did I genuinely consider this (in Santander after the Biscay crossing and with the airport tantalisingly close) and thought better of it after a good night’s sleep.

I was very inexperienced and naive when we set out, subconsciously believing that the awful circumstances we read about in the yachting magazines couldn’t happen to us. Neil was very careful each time we left port, making sure the long range forecast was good and the journey within my capabilities. Even so, inevitably, we were caught out from time to time and it could be very frightening.

For me, our adventure was all about the places we would go to rather than the sailing itself and Neil has gone along with that knowing I would prefer to get to our destination in good time, using the engine as necessary, rather than insisting on tacking the whole way. Getting there under sail was a bonus. Sometimes we yell at each other but on the whole I have been amazed with his patience and tolerance when I screw up, his ability to teach me without patronizing me and his willingness not to push on when he knows I am not happy. I know he can find the responsibility for making these decisions a burden.

There are times when I long for home comforts; washing machine, ordinary upright fridge, hot water on demand and particularly mains electricity. I joke about it but giving up the hair straighteners for the vast majority of the time was a genuine wrench, a blow to my self-perception of my appearance. I will never again take for granted the luxury of a hot bath.

Having now reached the Ionian, which was always the destination we had in mind, we both feel we have really achieved something. Even here it hasn’t all been idyllic. This year we chose to leave the boat on the hard for the winter and spend time at home which we were both ready to do. But reading about friends overwintering on board and remembering what fun it was last year makes me think I wouldn’t mind doing it again."

I think she is far too harsh on herself as regards her abilities, I certainly could not do it without her nor would I want to.
 
Cathy,
Thank you fo your frank responce which has helped me. I was able to show it to my wife and tell her to buck her ideas up and think herself lucky. She has a upright fridge and can use her hair straiteners. These women just don't know when they have it good.

In all seriousness I was reading it and it could very well have been written by my own wife. Thank you.

I was just talking to her as we do on occasions and she suddenly came out with, well if we go back in about 4 years !!!!
Now, if I wasn't confused by women before which, I was, I am now left paralised, open mouthed and dribbling. A womans mind is like her handbag. She has everything in there in no particular order. I would never, ever go into her handbag or mind for fear of being swallowed whole for eternity.
 
There may be paralles to draw with people who sell up and move abroad to live and find after the honymoon period that the new life is not for them and does not come up to the expectations of of what they thought it would be like.In many cases the man is busy with the house restoration whilst the woman is doing nothing different and on top the problem of relating with the indiginous population.
 
NDH said:
I even had to check that my wife had not created another user name as Mrs Springy!! all rather spookily familiar.
Click to expand...

:) In that case I reckon Mrs NDH must be an all round good sort!

Nostradamus - When you started this thread you said you were thinking about writing an article regarding the men v women outlook to cruising but it seems that the thread has evolved into a kind of counselling session for you, your wife and family, and indeed the rest of us. That's no bad thing. It's good to have a place to go to for advice, assistance, the sharing of ideas and to know there's people who are prepared to offer a shoulder and act as sounding-boards.

As regards missing family and friends; before we left our mooring in June there were a lot of my nearest and dearest who kept asking when they'd see us again and we said to them 'come and find us, book yourself a cheap flight and come and stay'. Since we've been away my parents have been to see us for a week, a couple of friends came for a 4 day break and the HWMBO's sister and brother in law are coming to stay in early Feb. Put the onus on them - if they care they'll make the effort.

I'm fortunate in that I don't have a need for hair straightners (I do have curly hair but it's very well behaved!) However, ladies, I do feel it's important to maintain standards. No, I don't wear make up and jewellery every day as I did when I was going to the office each day but I ensure that when we go ashore, even if it's just a trip for provisions, I'm presentable!

HWMBO has a cousin a couple of hundred miles up the coast and she's invited us to spend Christmas with her and her family however, she doesn't have the space to accommodate us so Christmas Eve and Christmas Day we're booked into an hotel nearby. What a treat! No, we haven't gone and blown next month's budget in fact, we've managed to get a real bargain through one of the last minute websites - four star hotel (with all the usual paraphernalia), bed and breakfast, two people, two nights, a bargain at 82 euros. And yes folks....that means.....I'm going to have a bath!!!! The first one in 6 months. What a lovely Christmas present, what more could a woman want?
 
So, how is it possible to make the womans life as a live aboard easier?
You have the trousers, but then again you usually do, so how would you change things aboard to make it easier for you or are there things you have changed and put your foot down on?
 
Nostrodamus said:
So, how is it possible to make the womans life as a live aboard easier?
You have the trousers, but then again you usually do, so how would you change things aboard to make it easier for you or are there things you have changed and put your foot down on?
Click to expand...
I'm going to be lynched by the distaff community here for this anecdote.

Many years ago when between wives, I met a lady whom I couldn't believe was real because she was not only beautiful and with a bubbling, outgoing personality that complemented my grumpy, introverted one, but she loved sailing and had a lot of experience. We both had full lives and demanding jobs but we planned to take off for three weeks on my boat in the Adriatic together.

After two weeks of idyllic cruising the length of Croatia (then Yugoslavia) we were leisurely drifting back north and becalmed just about at the mid-point of the sea. My companion suddenly flew into a rage for no apparent reason, cursing the confined space and the boring progress; I was staggered at this uncharacteristic behaviour and immediately started the engine and told her to go below and sleep it off.

I stayed at the helm through the rest of the evening and all night, making a sandwich for myself and not waking the sleeping beauty for fear of another tirade. In the early hours of the next day I steered into the Venice lagoon and a visitor's berth in the Santelena marina, crashing out myself in the saloon as soon as the lines were secured.

I awoke at midday and found the boat empty, but all her luggage was still aboard as were her toilet things so I assumed she was just taking a stroll in the marina or the local suburb, which is quite removed from the city centre. Perhaps she had gone for some groceries at the local mini-market, I thought.

Then I heard her climbing aboard, when I looked she was carrying some packages that clearly were not groceries, she smiled and greeted me warmly – she was back to her normal cheerful self. “Where have you been?” I asked. “All the way into the centre,” she answered, “and I've bought the most fantastic shoes.”

True story, I swear it.
 
Just come upon this thread, first time i have logged on in 2 weeks.........after 10 days of family Christmas including 4 grandchildren under 4!

Living abord seems easy in comparison.

As the wife of a lovely man who has listened to my worries over the last 22 years of cruising I am very lucky. We have spent the last 3 summers sailing around Biscay, around Spain and back through the canals to home near Plymouth.

Like most women who have replied here, I do not go sailing to be:
a/ Frightened.
b/ Wet and or cold.
c/ Out of touch with my children or friends. That means being close to a mobile phone signal whenever possible! and Wifi for skype.
d/ Unwashed, clothes and hair and body! Includes him!!
e/ Away for major family events, births, grandchildrens birthdays weddings etc.

Thats all most of us ask for! It all depends on your tolerance of rough seas and spartan conditions I guess. Most womens is fairly low, while men like having hairy tales to tell back in the yacht club.
 
Mrs Springy said:
:) In that case I reckon Mrs NDH must be an all round good sort!

Nostradamus - When you started this thread you said you were thinking about writing an article regarding the men v women outlook to cruising but it seems that the thread has evolved into a kind of counselling session for you, your wife and family, and indeed the rest of us. That's no bad thing. It's good to have a place to go to for advice, assistance, the sharing of ideas and to know there's people who are prepared to offer a shoulder and act as sounding-boards.

As regards missing family and friends; before we left our mooring in June there were a lot of my nearest and dearest who kept asking when they'd see us again and we said to them 'come and find us, book yourself a cheap flight and come and stay'. Since we've been away my parents have been to see us for a week, a couple of friends came for a 4 day break and the HWMBO's sister and brother in law are coming to stay in early Feb. Put the onus on them - if they care they'll make the effort.

I'm fortunate in that I don't have a need for hair straightners (I do have curly hair but it's very well behaved!) However, ladies, I do feel it's important to maintain standards. No, I don't wear make up and jewellery every day as I did when I was going to the office each day but I ensure that when we go ashore, even if it's just a trip for provisions, I'm presentable!

HWMBO has a cousin a couple of hundred miles up the coast and she's invited us to spend Christmas with her and her family however, she doesn't have the space to accommodate us so Christmas Eve and Christmas Day we're booked into an hotel nearby. What a treat! No, we haven't gone and blown next month's budget in fact, we've managed to get a real bargain through one of the last minute websites - four star hotel (with all the usual paraphernalia), bed and breakfast, two people, two nights, a bargain at 82 euros. And yes folks....that means.....I'm going to have a bath!!!! The first one in 6 months. What a lovely Christmas present, what more could a woman want?
Click to expand...

It wasn't supposed to b a counselling session but I knew my wifes feelings and those we had met on the way south. It just supprised me how similar the views of womwn wee to sailing and how diffeent they were from the mens.
Whenever you read anything about cruising you will see the "and they sailed off into the sunset happily ever after". I don't know if people down want to mention some of the possible problems but I thought it only fair to give a balanced view.
We have addressedsome of the problems we had and as a result we are all so much happier both feel we need and want to carry on.
At one point my wife felt she was the only one with concerns but now feels she that others felt the same which has helped her.
I tried to be general in the approach as there is always exceptions to everything.
Hopefully by being open it has helped others as well.
Like in everything in life, there is always an alternative or different approach to let you both make the best of cruising and of each other.
 
Ional said:
Just come upon this thread, first time i have logged on in 2 weeks.........after 10 days of family Christmas including 4 grandchildren under 4!

Living abord seems easy in comparison.

As the wife of a lovely man who has listened to my worries over the last 22 years of cruising I am very lucky. We have spent the last 3 summers sailing around Biscay, around Spain and back through the canals to home near Plymouth.

Like most women who have replied here, I do not go sailing to be:
a/ Frightened.
b/ Wet and or cold.
c/ Out of touch with my children or friends. That means being close to a mobile phone signal whenever possible! and Wifi for skype.
d/ Unwashed, clothes and hair and body! Includes him!!
e/ Away for major family events, births, grandchildrens birthdays weddings etc.

Thats all most of us ask for! It all depends on your tolerance of rough seas and spartan conditions I guess. Most womens is fairly low, while men like having hairy tales to tell back in the yacht club.
Click to expand...

Ional, I think the five points you have made have almost pinned it.

I have been sailing for many years but exclusively in a male orietated environment except for perhaps a dozen voyages in which my wife has crewed. In a male orientated environment there is fun in roughing it....sometimes.

There is the old adage when the going gets rough ..."well, if you cannot enjoy a joke, you shouldn't have offered to crew"...and that's ok when the ship's complement consists of all boys sailing together.

Sailing with my wife is subject to a different set of parameters of which I am very consciously mindful. This is because I don't want her freaked.

a/ Frightened. I think example and explanation are paramount to avoid fear in the partner. Explaining that a situation looks horrible but is not dangerous and why, is the key to averting fright. Also one's behaviour is also key. I always repeat there is no need for fear, just that it is unfamiliar. I tell her that the moment I become fearful she will spot it immediately. Meanwhile, if I am not fearful there is no need for anyone else to be fearful as it is unnecessary. As familiarity is gained by repeated exposures the fear factor progessively disappears and is replaced by cheerful confiodence.

b/ Wet and Cold. Much as I would like to be able to wave a magic wand to make the sea flat and the wind mild, it is not always possible on a long passage despite the best crystal ball of meteorologists and my interpretation.
It is no fun being cold. I keep several water bottles on board. A hot water bottle to hug is a huge comfort, if not practical at least pschological, with the promise, that the bad naughty wet cold will finally get bored and go away. Then I make sure that my wife is over dressed in wooly jumpers, scarves, mittens, even a balaclava. The idea is to accept that adverse weather conditions are not permanent. I am also very lucky neither of us suffer from seasickness at all, even in the most apalling heave-hos. We last year crossed the Atlantic from west to east and got caught up in the tail end of a hurricane. That was a baptism of fire fior her, but by following the two principlkes above and being secorely harnessed after a time I was surprised that the fear had evaporated totally and tea making was resumed.

I must go...back in a few minutes...
 
Nostrodamus said:
Oh and by the way.. what's a bath. I seem to remember one from my dim and distant past
Click to expand...

:D Mmmm, mmmm, and what a treat it was.

Btw, once you move on from La Rochelle next season...well, this year I'm guessing, (Happy New Year whilst we're on the subject!) I do hope you and your family enjoy Northern Spain, in particular the Rias, as much as we did in August/September 2011.

I'd never done a night watch until we crossed Biscay. We left from Anse de Martray off Isle de Re and went to Bilbao which took us 31 hours (motored all the way due to no wind!) I actually cried when we got to Bilbao as I was so chuffed with myself - I'd done it! I didn't come cruising to win any medals or break any records and it's highly unlikely I will ever do an ocean crossing - I love what we're doing at the moment and that means we're happy just bimbling along.

Once you move on to the Rias there are some idyllic anchorages (no marina fees - yay!) and they're all well protected from the Atlantic swell. From a relative newcomer's point of view, and a woman at that, I adored Galicia for lots of reasons one of which was the well protected cruising grounds. I hope you and your family enjoy them as much as we did.

Of course, don't forget to enjoy places like Bilbao, Santander, Gijon, Cudillero, Lastres to name but a few on the way too!
 
I shall continue.

My experience was that a baptism of fire ( very bad weather, lot of noise, spray coming across like bullets, new moon but obscured by cloud, lots of movement, cold and wet, very unpleasant) served to get a nasty sailing experience over and done with. Then a repetition would not be so bad.
Then really good weather, with the sun shinig, flat seas, a steady breeze, mild heeling is the bomus. It worked in the case of my wife. Other women may be different. Also her boarding school upbringing may have contributed in the sense of being able to withstand hardship and discomfort. We are all different are we not ?

c/ Out of touch..

The marine environment out of sight of land is awe inspiring because if your range of vision from the cockpit is say 8 miles to the horizon, we are looking at approximately 200 square miles opf sea, in which only a couple of seabirds may be immediately visible. It makes one feel very insignificant. I say the sea is a great leveller if only for this reason alone. Therefore the provision of some form of instant and reliable communication is imperative. I have a sat phone. Calls are not cheap, but their value is in the peace of mind they can provide in being able to remain in contact with loved ones, friends and neighbours is priceless.

d/ Unwashed.

We take enough changes of clothing to ensure we have clean changes. Then when we get ashore the launderette gets blitzed. Smalls are washed on board and hung out to dry on the rails. Hot water is a luxury, although SWMBO is very tough and shampoos her hair with seawater the rinses with fresh. I have a watermaker so provision of fresh water is not a problem.

e/ Shore contact.

Very important for the ladies, who by nature are nest builders and nest keepers. Everything must be done not to upset this.

Udoubtedly ladies generally have a lower tolerance for rough seas and spartan conditions but I also think a lot has to do with upbringing.

I am very lucky with my wafe, very good cook in all weathers, doesn't get seasick, very sensible, good companion., but I also think we men have a duty of care in nurturing our partners to help them harmonise with what is after all a very unfamiliar environment for them.

Nowadays insofar as she is concerned, if I sail she wants to come, she says "where you go, I go" Marvellous.
 
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