the conservative (small c ) yottie

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Steve Fossett's cat achieved 36 knots during his recent round Britain trip, yet my family cruising cat struggles to get much more than 8 knots - a ratio of over 4 to 1. My family car will do 120 mph whilst a formula 1 car might reach 230 mph - a ratio of 2 to 1. My motor bike will do 160 mph whilst a racer might again achieve 200 mph - say 1.25 to 1.

If the performance of the competitive racer reflects the current technological limit, then production sailboats are much lower down the scale of what could be, than cars or bikes. I suspect that a boat designer would blame the conservative boat buyer - certainly my experience on this forum and down at my club would support this view.

But why? Who wants to sail at 7 knots (the effective max of many 30 footers) when they could be sailing at 12? We would not be happy to buy the 70 mph top speed and technology of the Morris Minor, but that's what we seem to be doing in boats.
 

ccscott49

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But could you carry four adults in a formula 1 car, and do you want to sleep in a hammock and eat freeze dried food when aboard and have no comforts? Comparing a racing cat and a cruising cat, I do understand your point, but they are just toatlly different breeds, a racing car is designed to win a race if it falls apart at the end of the race, so be it, not so your car, or boat. You could also take into xconsideration the relative costs of the high tech materials and autoclaves etc, needed for a high performance cat/car.
 
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> Who wants to sail at 7 knots (the effective max of many 30 footers)
> when they could be sailing at 12?

Me. The sea has bumps in it and yachts do not have springs, humans do not like hitting bumps at high speed.
 

ponapay

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Smoothing the bumps

The best way is not to have any bumps, this is achiebed by diving well below the surface!

It can however be simulated by using an ILAN hull and accepting that the decks will be very wet and all on the upper deck will need to wear wet suits in most weathers.

Not very practical. Agree that the comparison between cruising and racing cats is not valid, in just the same way that displacement motor boats and racing planing motor boats are not comparable.
 
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Yes some cat designs appeal to me.

I have always been a Wharam fan but then maybe this has something to do with the dream of sailing oceans with only two 20 something girls on board!
 
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No I became a Wharram believer when lodging in a cranky Wiltshire abode around the time of the Battle of the Beanfield. One of my co-lodgers owned the book and had seen JW in Teheni during his original Atlantic circuit, (his dad was the governor of a Caribbean Is at the time).

Visited one of Wharram annual BBQ's near Devonport around 1986. At the BBQ James W was surrounded by a group of believers hanging off his every word, but I had a chat with Ruth W who was more approachable.

I sometimes wonder how far Wharram culture would have progressed without the 2-girls and nudism thing.
 

halcyon

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Don't hnow, but when he does his winter talks around the local yacht clubs he normally has a full house./forums/images/icons/smile.gif


Brian
 
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Is Teheni still sitting on the foreshore outside their base on the Fal estuary?

I poked around the rotting hulls about 10 years ago and was told the 60's vintage glue used in the construction degrades and ruled out a restoration.
 
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the point that i was trying to make was the relationship between the performance envelope of the high tech racer and that of the average family product was far worse for boats than for cars and bikes. given that the motive power - the wind - is the same for all sail boats, this is surprising. i would have expected the reverse ie racer close to family not the other way round.

obvious question is "why"
 

ccscott49

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I thin bk it's because of the cost and weight. The very high tech rig and sails and the very high tech composite hulls, with the lightness and no creature comforts. The average family car does about 100 MPH max, with four adults on board the formula one car 220 mph, lets face it, a motor boat for a family may mange 25 knots fully laden an offshore racing boat 60knots or more. You have to also take intop consideration the diofferent mediums, air and water. I see your point of course, but even in sailboats, speed costs money and weight is the killer of speed.
 
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You can always buy a McGr. 26. This sailing motorboat can, I believe, exceed 20 knots under outboard power - but clearly not under sail alone.
Although I cannot see it coping with the conditions prevailing here in the North Sea at present.
The options are there, but most of us seek a compromise based on cost, comfort and safety.
In response to the earlier posting about speed bumps, I would love to hear from someone who has developed something to cut through the (speed) bumps on local roads. I suppose the only marine equivalent would be a submarine.
 

dickh

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I also am a Wharram believer, in 1968 with 5 others stayed a weekend with James Wharram et al at Deganwy and we subsequently built a 46' ORO with the intention of doing the circumnavigation bit - to cut a long story short the group fell apart and the boat was sold.
The best sail we ever had was on the day we did the demo sail for her new owner - we estimated we were doing 12 knots in the R Stour and thrashed everything in sight!
Anyone seen her? - name KOTCHICK, white hulls with orange bulwarks, last seen in Whitby in about 1970...
He is certainly a charismatic character although I notice his latest boats have all the bits & pieces he said in 68 were not necessary(and persuaded us as well)... like aluminium masts; holes in boats; engines; marine toilets; gas cookers etc. etc.

Perhaps one day I'll build another - but with grp hulls!


dickh
I'd rather be sailing... :)<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by dickh on 28/10/2002 12:47 (server time).</FONT></P>
 

ccscott49

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6 "Beehive" shaped charges followed by 2 ozs of PE808 plastic and igniter, detonator, with 2 minute fuses in each hole, should do the job nicely.
 

halcyon

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Assuming the America's cup are the apsolute cutting edge of mono hull technology, then compare there speeds to a modern cruiser of similar size, not that great a difference.
With cats, back in the early 80's they built Firebirds, and later a 45 footer, down here at Gweek. Originally the Firebird was a cruiser/racer, but the cruiser part seems to have gone, leaving a fast racer which they are. Now why have not the cat builders followed this lead, then at least you could be looking at 12 knot plus.

Brian
 

chippie

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There are fast cruising cats built in NZ that easily exceed 12 knots. My old trimaran doesnt need too much wind to achieve it either as long as her bottom is clean.
Re the America's cup boats, I think pointing ability is where they differ most from cruisers.
Come to think of it though, I dont carry a lot of the stuff that is often demmed essential for cruising, so the weight doesnt get away on me.(on the boat anyway)

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by chippie on 29/10/2002 05:52 (server time).</FONT></P>
 

Jacket

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What you mustn't forget is that Formula 1 cars could be a lot faster, but have their speed regulated by restrictions on things like engine size (for safety reasons), whereas the maxi cats are unregulated.

It would perhaps be better to compare formula 1 cars and normal cars to IMS racers and family cruisers. In this case, the speed difference isn't so great.
 
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