ccscott49
Active member
Last stuff I used, and yes I am showing my age and you remember the headaches, bloody awful almond paste smelling stuff wasn't it!
jamesjermain
Active member
I think you've posed a very good question.
It's interesting that the idea of a fast cruising or cruiser-racing cat has simply not taken off in the same way as it has for monohulls. There are very few genuine performance cruisers with two hulls. Trimarans are a bit different and both Corsair and Quorning produce 10m boats capable of 15 knots quite happlly.
It is very difficult to design a cat which can be cruised with the sort of speed potential you seek, partly because of the need to carry the gear, equipment and comforts family want these days - and cats are far more susceptible to weight that momos or even tris. Also, the question of stability makes crusiing cat designers very conservative about the rigs they put on.
To make a cruising cat really go fast it needs to be built very light = expensive, have daggerboards for windward performance which many people don't like, have all the lockers sealed up so nothing can be put into them, and have a big, high aspect ratio rig which would significantly reduce safety margins and mean sailing with sheets in hand half the time.
However, there are some specialist builders and a couple of mainstream companies that come close. In my view one of the best is Catana but unfortunately their boats are expensive and almost impossible to find on the secondhand market. Outremers are also quick but rather sparse below as are/were Edel Cats. Dazcats down Plymouth way build some very interesting fast cruiser cats and I can tell you from personal experience, that their 10m model is quite capable fo 15 knots. However, it has half the accommodation of your Prout and probably half the weight too. Richard Woods has designed some interesting 9m to 12m Cats capable of good performance as has Derek Kelsall and others. Trouble is, you are into custom building here and costs are very high unless you can do it yourself
But ultimatly, you are right, the mainstream cruising cats have disappointing performance and could and should do better. One reason, I suspect, is that the modern cat market is driven by the Med and Caribbean charter markets where space, comfort and safety are top priorities. Some of them look like 'goers' but don't.
JJ
It's interesting that the idea of a fast cruising or cruiser-racing cat has simply not taken off in the same way as it has for monohulls. There are very few genuine performance cruisers with two hulls. Trimarans are a bit different and both Corsair and Quorning produce 10m boats capable of 15 knots quite happlly.
It is very difficult to design a cat which can be cruised with the sort of speed potential you seek, partly because of the need to carry the gear, equipment and comforts family want these days - and cats are far more susceptible to weight that momos or even tris. Also, the question of stability makes crusiing cat designers very conservative about the rigs they put on.
To make a cruising cat really go fast it needs to be built very light = expensive, have daggerboards for windward performance which many people don't like, have all the lockers sealed up so nothing can be put into them, and have a big, high aspect ratio rig which would significantly reduce safety margins and mean sailing with sheets in hand half the time.
However, there are some specialist builders and a couple of mainstream companies that come close. In my view one of the best is Catana but unfortunately their boats are expensive and almost impossible to find on the secondhand market. Outremers are also quick but rather sparse below as are/were Edel Cats. Dazcats down Plymouth way build some very interesting fast cruiser cats and I can tell you from personal experience, that their 10m model is quite capable fo 15 knots. However, it has half the accommodation of your Prout and probably half the weight too. Richard Woods has designed some interesting 9m to 12m Cats capable of good performance as has Derek Kelsall and others. Trouble is, you are into custom building here and costs are very high unless you can do it yourself
But ultimatly, you are right, the mainstream cruising cats have disappointing performance and could and should do better. One reason, I suspect, is that the modern cat market is driven by the Med and Caribbean charter markets where space, comfort and safety are top priorities. Some of them look like 'goers' but don't.
JJ
B
bob_tyler
Guest
Loved the marzipan smell, hated the headaches it caused but loved the BANGS!!!
G
Guest
Guest
Wouldn't take more than one sidewall core shot to deep six the McGr 26.
Agree the road bumps are unfortunately more durable.
Agree the road bumps are unfortunately more durable.
halcyon
Well-known member
Re the speed bumps, years ago now the firm I worked for had an office in Belfast, and it appears that they discovered the faster you take sleeping policeman, the smoother they become.
So either very slow or very fast.
No warrenty is issued with this advise, we will take no blame for damage resulting to boat or car from above.
Brian
So either very slow or very fast.
No warrenty is issued with this advise, we will take no blame for damage resulting to boat or car from above.
Brian
vyv_cox
Well-known member
Speed bumps
When I was a college student, a long time ago, the perimeter road was fitted with speed bumps. Some bright lecturer had the idea to set a project for his students, comparing time taken to drive around pre- and post-bumps. It turned into a kind of free-for-all race track and, as you will have guessed, the lowest time was set by someone after the bumps were installed. I recall the driver was a rally enthusiast.
When I was a college student, a long time ago, the perimeter road was fitted with speed bumps. Some bright lecturer had the idea to set a project for his students, comparing time taken to drive around pre- and post-bumps. It turned into a kind of free-for-all race track and, as you will have guessed, the lowest time was set by someone after the bumps were installed. I recall the driver was a rally enthusiast.
ccscott49
Active member
Could you imagine what a 30' x 6" perforating gun would do to a princess 46 or something similar, that I would like to see!
Spacewaist
Member
"Some of them look like go-ers...
....but dont."
Story of my life!
We're through the worst of it now....Gybe Ohhhhh..!
....but dont."
Story of my life!
We're through the worst of it now....Gybe Ohhhhh..!
Robin2
New member
Is Richard Woods telling porkies about the performance of his new Eclipse design?
see http:// [url]www.sailingcatamarans.com [/url]
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Robin2 on 30/10/2002 13:34 (server time).</FONT></P>
see http:// [url]www.sailingcatamarans.com [/url]
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Robin2 on 30/10/2002 13:34 (server time).</FONT></P>
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
I've sailed (short distances, not long) in some of the previous generations of RTW yachts. Ceramco NZ was probably the fastest of them. Whilst it is great fun for an afternoon, especially when fully staffed with professional masochists (sorry, sailors) the downsides in terms of constant attention to rig and trim; living in a stripped-out damp, dark and noisy cavern; de-fuelling in public view; tacking movable ballast; etc would not appeal to your average mum, dad and 2.4.
I've also been driven around Brands Hatch in the back seat of a race-tuned BMW635 driven by Derek Bell. I wouldn't like to go motoring like that every day either. Nor could I afford to replace the tyres on a daily basis!
I've also been driven around Brands Hatch in the back seat of a race-tuned BMW635 driven by Derek Bell. I wouldn't like to go motoring like that every day either. Nor could I afford to replace the tyres on a daily basis!
Robin2
New member
Full marks for the trip with Derek Bell - if I have heroes, he is probably one of them.
doris
Well-known member
Size matters!!
If you compare like with like you really need to compare similar sized boats. The current quickest 40 ft offshore racers are arguably the Open 40s in the current Round Alone. Their performance against the likes of a Ben 40.7 is not so outrageous with your multipliers. With unlimited dimensions and capacities the performance of race cars and Fireblades would be a bit different.
If you compare like with like you really need to compare similar sized boats. The current quickest 40 ft offshore racers are arguably the Open 40s in the current Round Alone. Their performance against the likes of a Ben 40.7 is not so outrageous with your multipliers. With unlimited dimensions and capacities the performance of race cars and Fireblades would be a bit different.
jamesjermain
Active member
Which porky would that be?
I have sailed at 8.5 knots to windward with him and tacked through around 85 degrees. I have emphatically NOT sailed at 21 knots in any direction, though I would not say it was impossible. When he is racing with a strong and experienced crew, Richard is quite gung-ho and not averse to flying a hull.
JJ
I have sailed at 8.5 knots to windward with him and tacked through around 85 degrees. I have emphatically NOT sailed at 21 knots in any direction, though I would not say it was impossible. When he is racing with a strong and experienced crew, Richard is quite gung-ho and not averse to flying a hull.
JJ