The Buying Process

[DKnight]

I have found the boat, but the boat-yard/broker has taken it in as a part exchange.
The previous owner has taken all the gear off, to fit out his new boat (ie. Radar, GPS, Liferaft, Spinnaker and Pole) . The Sails are 10 years old, the geneo is knackered, and the standing rigging is original at 12 years old.
The "broker" who owns the boat is asking top-dollar price at approx £57K, I think it needs £6 - 7K spent to get it right, and then it would be worth the asking price.

1/ Do I try and agree a lower price, which I doubt will be sufficiently low to make it viable, then the surveyor, hopefully will call into question the rig and sails so we can make a further arrangement? ( or will they?)

2/. Do I try another low offer. ( I already have but it probably was to low)

3/. Walk way.

Is it just me but in the price band that Im looking in £50-60K there are a lot of boats on the market, but very few seem to be selling, some having been on the market most of the 8 months I've been looking.

Are most people in this price range buying new?

DK

 

[andrewhopkins]

The market

I would do 2) or 3).

You dont mention what boat it is. Some are harder to get than others e.g. if its a Beneteau, they'll be another one round the corner but if its a Rustler 36, they are harder to find.

It is a buyers market out there so if you really want the boat, get a survey done and tell the broker that you'll have to spend £xK to get it up to scratch and stick with your guns.

The reason many arent selling is that people are thinking "shall i spend 50k on a 10 year old boat or 50k on a brand new 36ft bavaria". The drop in imported boat prices has seriously affected the 2nd hand market.

If you are not 110% happy, walk away.

 

[billskip]

You will never buy anything if you allways think its "not worth it" on the other hand "a fool an his money are easy parted" If you want advice I suggest you tell the make and model and Im sure someone will be able to be helpfull and give a guide on the value..It may even be "a bargain"as is..... Best of luck..

Bill
www.aegeansailing.co.uk

www.macsyachting.com

 

[JeremyF]

You need to set expectations with the vendor, otherwise you'll be wasting the cost of a surveyor. You need to make it clear that you anticipate making an offer £6k below the asking price for reasons A, B, C, and then get the vendor's reaction.

However unrealistic, he may be intending to hold out for the asking price.

Jeremy Flynn

www.yacht-goldeneye.co.uk
New pics 11.02.02

 

[Strathglass]

Sounds if it is not a good buy. unless it is quite a large yacht. I would think your 6-7k may be too light. Let the forum know where it is and what it is. Then you can get multiple opinions on its value. How many more bits have been removed? and how many holes have been left where fittings used to be? , is the wiring damaged?
If you really want it then go in at a rideculous price or walk away.
Iain

 

[david_e]

Have just got back from the coast and it would appear that the market is picking up as we enter the selling season, have seen a boat which is well below par fetch good money. Was also chatting with a broker who worked out that his average sale period was within the 8 - 12 week range. On the other hand i have seen many popular boats not sell for 8 - 12 months even though they are well priced. The advice the others give is spot on, not happy walk away. If you are thinking that this might be the one for you then a couple of points; bid low but be nice to them when doing it. If it is a stock boat then they will not want to be sat on that money for too long and despite the current flurry of activity it is a very short season and things like lack of available berth and mooring spaces etc, the economy and new boats are all worrying for him.

As mentioned b4, you need to let us know the boat details.

 

[Gordonmc]

Re: The market

In the circumstances you might do no worse than trying your hand with a VERY low bid, subject to survey. The broker has made his money, otherwise they would not have taken on a stripped-out crock.

In my recent purchase I punted a bid less than half the asking price. Owner came back saying if I upped by £1k the boat was mine. I did and it is.

 

[AndrewB]

Option 1 stinks.

The kit that's been taken off probably had a second-hand value no more than £3,000, specially if it was up to 12 years old, even if it would cost £6,000 to replace new.

If you drive a hard bargain on the price, then the seller will be in no mood to drop further on the surveyor's report.

Moreover, if you've been told the sails are 10 years old and the rigging 12 years, you can hardly be suprised if the surveyor's report then slates them. Only make an offer if you would be prepared to buy the boat as seen, at that price. If the surveyor does turn up some things neither you nor the seller knew about, or the seller kept quiet about, you shouldn't expect to gain out of it. The price will only lower by the cost of putting it right plus maybe a small allowance for the inconvenience. And you will have to make the repairs in order to get insurance. This assumes faults that are reasonably easily rectified - of course if it's some major structural defect, the game changes.

Surveyors will give an estimate of value if you want some assurance you aren't being ripped off, though my experience is that their estimates are not very reliable. Only an inexperienced seller will be influenced by a low surveyor's estimate.

PS Don't forget that at the same time as the broker is trying to talk-up your offer to you, he's trying to talk-down the asking price to the seller. Legally he has to put any reasonable offer forward. Sometimes worth going back a few weeks later with the same or very similar offer.

 

[tcm]

Re: Is it really for sale?

All good stuff, AB.

If you're really genuine, one early question worth asking is "Is this boat really for sale?". This really shakes up the seller's side. A variant is "If we agreed a price, would the seller actually sell me the boat?" Looking at it from their point of view, the boat has been for sale for ages, initially with enthusiasm ("but that's going, that's going, no that's not staying either..." wuill have put everyone off) but then less so with used-boat shows and so on. Perhaps they now have a cheap berth, so it's not too critical, they've already haggled the broker, and so on. The seller may not be at all "desperate" if he didn't need to trade in and had/has the luxury of owning both boats to effect the transfer of kit.

But totally agree with AB that the starting bid should assume the obvious. Very difficult to go lower and still appear genuine. The starting bid should be "as seen".

 

[lezgar]

After to do you offer you can't expect lower the price with something that you already know (like sails and rig) and you have to think that is a 12th years old boat and if the surveyor say that she is ok for her age you can't expect to pay less money.

With £60000 you can buy a new boat (new sails, rig, engine,... and guarantee)

 

[Chris_Stannard]

Your estimates sound low. I recently refitted a 36 footer. The spinaker cost about £1500, I do not know what the pole would cost but would guess about £3-400. A new genoa is going to be around £1000. A new instrument system cost me £1600 and that was doing most of the work myself, and after 10 years the instruments will be unreliable and beyond economic repair. Radar and a Navtex are going to cost about £1500 - 2000, and at 10 years the VHF is probably near to replacement. Has the engine had a recent overhaul. I did the top end of the Volvo 2003 and the bits coat around £450.
The real trick in buying anything is being prepared to walk away and risk losing it. My policy would be to get ball park estimates for all that needs to be done, not forgetting things that almost certainly will need doing, such as rudder bearings and cutlass bearings, and then set your price. You can then say to the broker "here is my offer, whilst you consider it I will go on looking at other boats. If I find something I like better the offer will lapse. I bought a house, that needed doing up, on that basis for 70% of the asking price.
Another thought, why not buy a better equipped boat which is up together but say needs new cushions, might be a better bet

Chris Stannard

 

[billmacfarlane]

You don't say what type of boat it is. Are there other examples of the same make available in the country ? If so compare them. It's very easy to get "hooked" on a particular boat but try and stand back and look at it hard headedly. The owner has taken a lot of gear off the boat so you'll have to replace most/some of it at a cost. You'll need to build this cost into your budget. The advantage of this is that you'll have brand new gear. The standing rigging sounds as if it will need replaced, again build that and any other items like that into your budget. Once you've totted the whole lot up , and if still interested in the boat make an offer based on your budget less a negotiable amount. If your final offer is rejected then simply walk away. In any market an object is only worth what someone is willing to pay and if you think the object is overpriced then don't pay. As some people have already said it's a buyers market and the price of new boat's has affected the second hand market .