maby
Well-Known Member
As I said above, you cannot, but that is not the government's fault....
the belgians are right to fine us for red diesel says my Euro MP
- Thread starter Burnham Bob
- Start date
As I said above, you cannot, but that is not the government's fault....
Chris_Robb
Well-Known Member
So why would you want to fill up with Low sulphur road fuel. This has FAME in it and is known not to be suitable for marine use. The Red diesel supplied to marinas in sea going areas is FAME free. In Greece we have no alternative but to use WHite diesel with up to 10% FAME in it. I have had to empty the tank at the end of the season to avoid the problems of wax sludge. I suspect Greek fuels are also of extremely variable quality!
So it is almost impossible for you NOT to use Red Diesel.
maby
Well-Known Member
http://www.plymyachtclub.org.uk/page45.html :
Will biodiesel affect my boat engine?
The most compelling evidence we found is a survey carried out in the United States. Over a four-year period and involving engines mostly between 10 and 25 years old and blends in excess of 50% biodiesel by volume, results showed that 87% of those surveyed reported no problems. So in the volumes that may be found in red and white diesel either now or in the future, the answer is more than likely to be no. No doubt, those with warranties that are still extant will wish to check them, but it does seem that biodiesel blends conforming to agreed standards produce fewer harmful emissions in comparison with ordinary low sulphur diesel and can reduce wear and tear on engines, pumps and injectors.
With thanks to Nick Vass of Omega Yacht Services and Steve Moody, Technical Expert for Rix Bio Diesel Ltd, for their contribution to this article. K/A
Heckler
Well-Known Member
The Irish farmer boys thought that was a good idea, false tanks etc, BUT the reveners arent soft, they take the sample from the bleed points on the engine, saw it on one of those cop shows!How is a tank dipped;- through the fill hose?
If so, all we need is a closed end tube full of the white stuff, carefully inserted inside the hose reaching the bottom of the tank.
Stu
Pye_End
Well-Known Member
ithet
Well-Known Member
To go to Belgium and not get fined! Which is the point of this thread.
charles_reed
Well-Known Member
Actually they don't try to interfere with us in the UK, only when we break the law in their country.
By hoisting the ensign of the country you are visiting you're agreeing to abide by their laws.
Using red diesel is against their law - you can always keep away if you don't like their law and just sail around the British Isles.
charles_reed
Well-Known Member
I'm afraid you're incorrect in fact, Chris.
Most road diesel contains up to 8% biodiesel (it's due to be higher in France this year).
On some very old mechanical injectors, wear increases without high sulphur content, equally high sulphur diesels produce greater acidic products of combustion, requiring more frequent oil changes.
Worst of all, for injector wear, is using 23 degree kerosene.
There is some evidence and a body of opinion which connects increased bacterial infection with high levels of biodiesel, in the presence of sunlight and temperatures exceeding 28C (unlikely in UK). It is probable that the source of the biodiesel is the determinant factor.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
what grade is it that northern EU countries get for marine use
Chris_Robb
Well-Known Member
Quite - because I did say it was therefore impossible not to use red diesel!!!
Chris_Robb
Well-Known Member
Sorry Charles I am not wrong! Read my post again That is precisely what I said Ultra Low sulphur road diesel contains FAME - up to 10 % is allowable. My point is that Marine diesel is not allowed to have FAME in it. So if you want to run on white diesel you have to have FAME in it.
Bosun Higgs
N/A
No we dont have a derogation. Those have time limits specified by the EU law we agreed to and ours expired some time ago.
Its your right to be a little Englander but in fairness you really should not blame the EU for things that the UK government has signed up to
PeterGibbs
Well-Known Member
I refer you back to my question:
"But I do see Belgium and some other European countries have taken measures to limit red diesel exclusively to non-pleasure applications. Apparently this is their choice. Now an awareness of our continuing use of red for pleasure is worrying them. The Belgian embassy states Belgium is merely implementing EU law in threatening to fine bona fide UK vessels travelling with red diesel: I fail to see the basis for their assertion. So why are they harassing us?"
You (again) miss the point - our government is not defending its citizens abroad. Referring folks to the RYA site is somewhat less useful than pressing the government to do its prime job.
PWG
Erik C
Well-Known Member
You (again) miss the point - our government is not defending its citizens abroad. Referring folks to the RYA site is somewhat less useful than pressing the government to do its prime job.
PWG
You could also turn it around and say that your government is the only one not following the EU rules on red diesel and by not doing so is creating the problem for UK vessels.
PWG
You could also turn it around and say that your government is the only one not following the EU rules on red diesel and by not doing so is creating the problem for UK vessels.
jtwebb
Well-Known Member
Surely the only thing any bunch of politicians is good at is fiddling their expenses? The practice seems to have extended to some Civil Servants and Police as well. As for having bonuses for just doing their job properly, ridiculous.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
I am not missing the point. If you keep up to date with the actions both the RYA and government are taking, they are indeed pursuing the issue with both the Belgian government and the EU Commission.
It is not a question of "harrassing" British visitors, the Belgians (and the Dutch) apply their law to their own citizens in just the same way as they do to British visitors - as several posters on these threads will confirm.
The issue is about whether UK law is consistent with the EU Directive. The Belgians (and others) believe not. They are not "choosing" a different law, they are basing their law on the EU Directive, just as all the other EU members have. The Commission, having previously suggested that UK law was also acceptable, have now seemingly changed their mind and launched a challenge to the UK government.
All this you can get from the RYA site and government press releases. There is little individuals can do in this situation. Even writing to your MP or other kind of huffing and puffing will make no difference if you believe that the current arrangements are in your interest as government policy already defends those interests. On the other hand there may be value in trying to persuade the government to change its mind and bring the UK into line with other countries in the EU. However, if the contributions on this thread are anything to go by that would not seem to be a preferred outcome.
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Joker
Well-Known Member
The main problem is that the Customs officers have difficulty justifying themselves in the single market, so they have to think of job creation schemes. 'Let's go and check yachts! That'll show the powers that be that we are really really useful.'
Beadle
Well-Known Member
Are they also going to arrest and fine commercial vessels from the UK. Or what about lifeboats will the RNLI be fined for landing Belgian survivors in a Belgian port.
What is the situation with Irish boats - do they still gave green diesel? - will they be fined?
Is it time to consider a flag of conveniance - perhaps I could register in Norway.
What is the situation with Irish boats - do they still gave green diesel? - will they be fined?
Is it time to consider a flag of conveniance - perhaps I could register in Norway.
prv
Well-Known Member
Presumably these are entitled to reduced duty diesel, so the Belgians have no objection to it being red.
Pete
Seven Spades
Well-Known Member
They should stop dying marine diesel here, it would solve the problems in one swoop.