the belgians are right to fine us for red diesel says my Euro MP

[Bav34]

Pink..ish

Ah Hah! So we're both right then. I like that.

You can imagine how little one of those syphons leaves in the bottom of a
22 litre tank yet my WHITE tube still shows coloured diesel going through after a refill at Guernsey ... hence me thinking their diesel had dye in it.

We're doomed.

 

[electrosys]

Seems to me that if there continues to be an issue with rebated diesel - then let everybody claim VAT and Duty refunds on all white fuels paid for in the UK, but burned outside of UK waters. That should wake 'em up.

 

[thalassa]

Holland is much stricter in the control of the use of red diesel. It may only be used to heat your boat. The fines are steep, they also check the diesel in your car.

While I'm very reluctant to join the Belgium-bashing contest, but this is indeed fact.
The non-red diesel directive was enforced a few years earlier in the Netherlands than in Belgium. Belgian governement, and consequently customs and river police, took a very relaxed view regarding yachts.
This led to the situation that i.e. an important marina like Breskens (The Netherlands) had NO fuel facilities, since all Dutch boats went to nearby Zeebrugge (Belgium) to fill up with RED diesel, and returned with the receipts. At the time, the Dutch customs accepted those. The Dutch governement took a very dim view of all this, and lambasted the Belgian governement regularly to comply with the EU directive. And in the end, they reluctantly did, as meanwhile have the French. Dunkirk delivers only white to yachts.
In fact, the only time we have been checked on fuel was at Hansweert (The Netherlands) (twice in a year) and Boulogne . Checking was with a tube, by eye.

As to the E-borders project ...THAT would be a fight worth having. We have since a few years the 'crew list' scheme. Schengen boats that go to Britain have to give notice to the Harbour master what their plans are in the form of a triple-page crew list. The Harbour master is supposed to keep them in a file, more often than they use the dustbin for this. The system is as far as I know boycotted by all Belgians.

As for Belgium... it is an old and revered tradition that the British hate the Belgians.
Sadly, being badly served at airports has no excuse. But alas, not limited to Brussels either. Besides having my wife's passport and money stolen, we lost all our luggage (was never returned or refunded) at Heathrow.

As to the old chestnut 'most boring place in the Galaxy': I ran for some years a British expat society in Antwerp. Most of our members generally stayed on longer than they ever intended, a good number never returned to Britain. The tourist who makes it to Ghent and Antwerp have in most cases a different view : tripadvisor

Cheers,
Will

 

[westhinder]

Risk, what is the likelyhood of that happening in reality

We see Customs patrols nearly every weekend in one of the harbours. They wander along the pontoons and check the yachts where people are aboard. So the more you sail, the greater the likelyhood of being checked. With only four harbours on 40 miles of coast, the chances are real.

 

[Supine Being]

As to the old chestnut 'most boring place in the Galaxy': I ran for some years a British expat society in Antwerp. Most of our members generally stayed on longer than they ever intended, a good number never returned to Britain. The tourist who makes it to Ghent and Antwerp have in most cases a different view : tripadvisor

Fred Drift, but +1 on Ghent. It was a bit of a building site right in the very centre when we were there in August but still cool. Apart from being very beautiful (ongoing works excepted), and with a much better choice of restaurants than Bruges, the babe count was astonishing! I think my boys could do worse than choose Ghent for their university education

 

[JayBee]

Fred Drift, but +1 on Ghent. It was a bit of a building site right in the very centre when we were there in August but still cool. Apart from being very beautiful (ongoing works excepted), and with a much better choice of restaurants than Bruges, the babe count was astonishing! I think my boys could do worse than choose Ghent for their university education

Glad to hear that. No merchant seaman on a run ashore in the great seaport of Antwerp would ever describe Belgium as boring.

 

[charles_reed]

If this is correct - are we now going to have trouble in France and other EU countries too?

Almost certainly as the UK is the only country out of step.

I'd query whether or not yachties have a God-given right to red diesel.

 

[Pye_End]

One intriguing quote from your Belgian counsellor letter is: 'Some of the confusion surrounding this question arises from early letters from the Commission which unfortunately contain some inaccurate information'.

Perhaps commision once agreed that the path that the UK eventually took was satisfactory. It would be very interesting to know what the 'inaccurate information' was - it may well be that all this is the fault of the commision.

 

[samwise]

Following Mr Cameron's hissy fit at the recent EU summit, I think we should expect a lot more anti-British attitude from our friends across the water that may be manifested by increasingly awkward officialdom.

If the MEP's reply is kosher it would appear that we ( the UK) has been out of step in this matter for the thick end of three years, in which case all that stuff about the RYA and HMRC and others seeking a special deal has been a total waste of time and effort all round. We were stuffed from the start.

Dealing with the EC is like banging your head against a mattress -- you do not even get the satisfaction of pain.

The only way out would be for the right wing extremist Tories to get their way and pull us out of the EC, then we can have diesel any colour we like. I think puce would be nice.

 

[Monique]

IMO.... your Euro MP is a self promoting bar steward suckling on the Euro teat.....

Now that the hammer has fallen and the Euro will soon be a thing of the past, its time to tell the Brussels vampires to place their regulations where the sun does not shine.

 

[jdc]

What if coming from outside the EU?

I plan a voyage outside the EU (to Norway or Iceland), and will certainly have to fill up with whatever diesel I'm offered, quite possibly dyed red. It will be down to the Norwegian or Icelandic government to charge me whatever tax they see fit, and colour it as they see fit.

I then intend to come back to into EU waters. I imagine that it has to be legal to do this, ie enter an EU port and make a customs declaration, and possibly pay duty, otherwise we'd effectively ban yachts from which have ever voyaged outside the EU from returning to EU waters.

Does the man from the Belgian embassy mean to imply that it's not legal to re-enter the EU - a sort of permanent banishment or exile, presumably in contravenention to the european human rights act? I don't think that can be what he is arguing, so clearly he's simplified and interpreted the actual law and we should continue to challenge his statement by asking this kind of question. So far I think he's talking through his hat.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Must be - he's Lib Dem

That should get the Little Englanders going

Bloody gravy licking sh!t

Its not funny really - just been reading Daniel Hannon (Cons) MEP recent news letter. I wonder what he would say. I will send him the links to this and other threads.

He hates the EU as set up.

 

[sailorman]

Bloody gravy licking sh!t

Its not funny really - just been reading Daniel Hannon (Cons) MEP recent news letter. I wonder what he would say. I will send him the links to this and other threads.

He hates the EU as set up.

what about that nice Chap from UKIP giving us a helping hand

 

[angelsson]

Meanwhile, I will use what influence I have to encourage the UK government to align itself fully wuth the terms of the EU directive.

****** ....... Typical dont fight them just let them walk all over us.

Tom

PS Why wont it let me say T o ss er

I think the RYA has a different set of advice on this, would trust them before some T****R libdem eurofanatic

 

[Bosun Higgs]

"the belgians are right to fine us for red diesel says my Euro MP"

Pro Europe and so very anti British?? I thought MP's should always put their Country's interests first? Like the fishing quota debacle, the whole thing stinks to my mind.

No its not anti British. The directive on the sunject of taxation of fuel for pleasure craft was enacted in 1992 with UK government agreement and we askled for and were given a derogation so we had time to organise white diesel supplies for pleasure craft. We havent done so. We have not kept our word. We have not done what we said we would do.

If we wanted to keep red diesel then we should not have agreed to give it up in 1992. How can you blame the EU or the Belgians for us double dealing?

 

[angelsson]

Almost certainly as the UK is the only country out of step.

I'd query whether or not yachties have a God-given right to red diesel.

Charles, it is not about a God-given right of yachties, or being 'in-step' with anyone else, but a right of the UK to self determine what we can and cannot do here, without interference or approval of the Belgians or any other foreigner for that matter.

I would have thought receipts for red fuel purchased in the UK should be sufficient for those whose national affairs decree white, just how much more are we going to take of this officious nonsense from whatever source.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Charles, it is not about a God-given right of yachties, or being 'in-step' with anyone else, but a right of the UK to self determine what we can and cannot do here, without interference or approval of the Belgians or any other foreigner for that matter.

I would have thought receipts for red fuel purchased in the UK should be sufficient for those whose national affairs decree white, just how much more are we going to take of this officious nonsense from whatever source.

Heavens sake Angelsson! You're like the club member who signs up the the club rules when he joins, enjoys making new rules every AGM and then says " well of course the club has no right to apply its rules to me".

When / if we leave the EU then we can make all our own rules. In the meantime we have to abide by the EU laws that we have agreed to.

 

[Koeketiene]

Wonder if he's pro europe

Must be - he's Lib Dem

That should get the Little Englanders going

IMO.... your Euro MP is a self promoting bar steward suckling on the Euro teat.....

Bloody gravy licking sh!t

Whatever kept you?

 

[maby]

...

i'm beginning to wonder if our claims for the fines should not be against the belgians, but against the UK government who ought to indemnify us against the results of their supposedly legal policies

Not again! The fault is not with our government, it's with our marinas. The UK government is not saying that we must use red diesel. They will be very happy if we use road diesel and they collect extra tax. The marinas and ports are the ones that we need to be pressuring to stock white diesel. The UK government, in recognition of the difficulties we face due to marinas not stocking unmarked diesel, have given us a way out by making an exception for us - but that is all it is - an exception to the tax rules to allow for the actions of the marinas.

It is not clear that it is compatible with EU rules and the Belgians are being pedantic - what do you want our government to do? Enforce the rules strictly? If they do that, we will be unable to sail in this country either - the governement have no power to force the marinas to stock unmarked diesel.

 

[angelsson]

Heavens sake Angelsson! You're like the club member who signs up the the club rules when he joins, enjoys making new rules every AGM and then says " well of course the club has no right to apply its rules to me".

When / if we leave the EU then we can make all our own rules. In the meantime we have to abide by the EU laws that we have agreed to.

Would never sign up to a club that was so disadvantageous, and we do have a derogation to use red anyway, so not rule breaking.

Also heard that excuse so many times as a reason for relinquishing more and more to the unelected eurocrats in Brussels.
I am pround to be a 'little Englander' one of many now being proved right all along, and not a little european.