Tender outboard

[Koeketiene]

I thought that you cannot buy a new 2 stroke as they are now illegal in the EU?

TS

They're not illegal as such. You can still own & operate one, it's just that all the new ones old now have to be 4 stroke.
Nothing to stop you from buying and operating a second hand one.

For OP: our Mariner 2.5 (2-stroke) has served us well over the years, and I hope it will continue to do so for many years to come.

 

[maby]

They're not illegal as such. You can still own & operate one, it's just that all the new ones old now have to be 4 stroke.
Nothing to stop you from buying and operating a second hand one.

For OP: our Mariner 2.5 (2-stroke) has served us well over the years, and I hope it will continue to do so for many years to come.

I don't think that they strictly speaking have to be 4 stroke - it's just that no manufacturer has managed to make a 2 stroke that meets the environmental requirements.

We went for a Honda 2.3, fully recognising the criticisms of them and we have not regretted it. Quite simply, it's a question of weight - I didn't want to risk injuring myself or damaging the boat while lugging anything heavy round - the Honda is manageable, but anything heavier could be a strain. The air cooling was also a big consideration - it does make the engine more noisy, but it removes the need to flush it out after use and that was a concern. I accept that there are questions over its life expectancy with criticisms of the quality of some materials used, but I have friends with Honda 2.3s that are still running fine after more than four years and came to the conclusion that £150 per year was an acceptable price - actually expecting to do better than that. The centrifugal clutch was a pain at first, but I've come to the conclusion that people who continue to have problems with it just don't use the engine enough - ours seems to have bedded in now and is a lot less snatchy - though it is also possible that I am just better at controlling it.

 

[dylanwinter]

I think that one day there will be blokes talking about the immortal simplicity of the Honda air cooled engines

so what if it is a lawnmower engine - I never maintain my lawnmower until it stops - then I swish out the oil - give it a new plug and a way it goes again.

of course there will also be blokes describing it as a noisy spawn of the devil

I think it is a classic in the making

and damn it is powerful and frugal compared to the old seagulls

D

 

[FishyInverness]

Let's compound the 2-stroke issue somewhat, just for fun

There are 2-strokes that can be legally sold as new within the EU, it's just that the DFI system required to make them comply does not lend itself to the low horsepower type. They end to be of the 20hp+ type.

Secondly, if you can prove that your outboard is being purchased for commercial use, you can purchase a 2-stroke engine, and the onus on "proof" can be somewhat sketchy - it's just that the wait for one can be quite lengthy, although I know that Tohatsu have ready stocks for this purpose...now, not wanting to suggest any underhanded behaviour but, supposing a carp lake owner purchases a handful of 2.5 2-stroke engines for the lake boats, but never gets round to fitting them, and then decides to sell them off "2nd hand"?

 

[Angele]

Let's compound the 2-stroke issue somewhat, just for fun

You can also still buy smaller, new 2-stroke engines in the Channel Islands. They are not in the EU. IIRC there is someone from Mainbrayce - chandlers on Alderney - who posts on here occasionally.

See: http://mainbrayce.co.uk/two-strokes-still-available/

The OP talks about the better economy of 4-stroke. Quite true. But just how much are you going to use it that the cost of fuel would ever become material? And, I think, 2-strokes are cheaper than 4-stroke, so you have some way to go before the extra cost of fuel on the 2-stroke eliminates this advantage.

2-stroke are also lighter and easier to handle IMHO.

You are right about the smoke though. Also noise.

 

[Ravi]

You can also still buy smaller, new 2-stroke engines in the Channel Islands. They are not in the EU. IIRC there is someone from Mainbrayce - chandlers on Alderney - who posts on here occasionally.
See: http://mainbrayce.co.uk/two-strokes-still-available/

Now, that is very interesting! I wish I had time for a trip to Alderney in the next few weeks! (I have had some great deals on gear at Mainbrayce.)
One thing that puzzles me is that their advert says that the 3.5HP engine weight is 13kg. The Tohatsu manual says that it is 19.4Kg. (See page 10 on http://www.tohatsu.com/tech_info/own_man_pdfs/Toh_MFS2-5B_3-5B_003-11085-7.pdf) which seems very heavy.

As Maby says, the Honda (or Suzuki) win hands down on weight for 4 strokes and, if that is the main criterion for the OP, then he would have to seriously consider them.

Have you considered getting the Yamaha 2.5 (best quality) and fitting an outboard hoist.

That is my current thinking. I think that a hoist is, generally, a nice thing to have and something I will appreciate even one with a lighter 13Kg engine. (Dropping the motor in the drink is as much of a concern for me as the weight!)

 

[Angele]

One thing that puzzles me is that their advert says that the 3.5HP engine weight is 13kg. The Tohatsu manual says that it is 19.4Kg. (See page 10 on http://www.tohatsu.com/tech_info/own_man_pdfs/Toh_MFS2-5B_3-5B_003-11085-7.pdf) which seems very heavy.

Isn't the manual in that link the 4-stroke model?

Another advantage of a 2-stroke over a 4-stroke is that they are lighter. I have a Mariner 3.3HP 2-stroke. Not at all heavy.

 

[FishyInverness]

Isn't the manual in that link the 4-stroke model?

Another advantage of a 2-stroke over a 4-stroke is that they are lighter. I have a Mariner 3.3HP 2-stroke. Not at all heavy.

Yup, that manual is for the 4-stroke engine - i've got the 2-stroke manual on my desk at the moment : 12.5kg for the Short Shaft, 13kg for the Long.

 

[Ravi]

Isn't the manual in that link the 4-stroke model?

Doh! So, it is. Correction..... The Tohatsu 2.5 is 12.5Kg. (http://www.tohatsu.com/tech_info/own_man_pdfs/Toh2-5A2_3-5A2_3-5B2.pdf)

Another advantage of a 2-stroke over a 4-stroke is that they are lighter. I have a Mariner 3.3HP 2-stroke. Not at all heavy.

It is a design accomplishment that the Honda and Suzi 4 strokes (13kg.) are comparable, in weight, with a Tohatsu 2 stroke. It is a question of whether the compromises to achieve that weight make the engine undesirable.

 

[dylanwinter]

Doh! So, it is. Correction..... The Tohatsu 2.5 is 12.5Kg. (http://www.tohatsu.com/tech_info/own_man_pdfs/Toh2-5A2_3-5A2_3-5B2.pdf)



It is a design accomplishment that the Honda and Suzi 4 strokes (13kg.) are comparable, in weight, with a Tohatsu 2 stroke. It is a question of whether the compromises to achieve that weight make the engine undesirable.

the honda is a very good engine

had mine running this morning after lieing on the cabin floor since November

as reliable as my mower

D

 

[Ravi]

the honda is a very good engine
had mine running this morning after lieing on the cabin floor since November
as reliable as my mower
D

And with the aircooling, it also has the benefit of reduced maintenance. BUT... it is much noisier than the other water cooled engines and the clutch is not to everyone's taste. I HATE it. I thought it was just me but others seem to feel the same. I would not say 'no' to a bargain one, but given the choice I prefer something quieter and with a neutral gear.

The OP also mentioned a Torqueedo. I have just been talking to a dealer who sells them. His verdict ..."Great if you can afford one and also afford the periodic battery replacements that are required". Apparently, the batteries deteriorate with use and are horrendously expensive to replace. So, it sounds like a piece of kit for the wealthy. not for me, then!

 

[westernman]

And with the aircooling, it also has the benefit of reduced maintenance. BUT... it is much noisier than the other water cooled engines and the clutch is not to everyone's taste. I HATE it. I thought it was just me but others seem to feel the same. I would not say 'no' to a bargain one, but given the choice I prefer something quieter and with a neutral gear.

The OP also mentioned a Torqueedo. I have just been talking to a dealer who sells them. His verdict ..."Great if you can afford one and also afford the periodic battery replacements that are required". Apparently, the batteries deteriorate with use and are horrendously expensive to replace. So, it sounds like a piece of kit for the wealthy. not for me, then!

Have you seen the weight of the Torqueedo battery??? 25KG.
You might as well get a 4 stroke infernal combustion thing.

http://www.electricoutboardsdirect.co.uk/torqeedo-power-26-104-97-p.asp

 

[FWB]

Have you seen the weight of the Torqueedo battery??? 25KG.
You might as well get a 4 stroke infernal combustion thing.

http://www.electricoutboardsdirect.co.uk/torqeedo-power-26-104-97-p.asp

The TOTAL weight of a Torqeedo 1003S is 13.4 kg
It splits into 3 parts making it very light.

 

[FishyInverness]

the honda is a very good engine

had mine running this morning after lieing on the cabin floor since November

as reliable as my mower

D

Is your Mower a Honda too though?