Tax red diesel in the same way as white

[Angele]

I don't normally frequent this place, not really my sort of thing, so not sure whether this has been "done" on here, but here goes.

There is a new part of the HM Treasury website that allows people to propose ideas for cutting the Government's financial deficit. Some ideas are good, some are nuts. People then vote to say which are good and which are rubbish.

Half a dozen or so think the duty on red diesel should be increased to road fuel level. As you guys/gals have more of an interest in this than me, thought you might like to make your view heard.

You need to register before you can vote, but it doesn't take long.

Diesel tax
Diesel tax again
More diesel tax
A duplicate of the previous
and finally more tax on diesel

Dontya just love this Big Society debate.

 

[Major Catastrophe]

It sort of goes wrong when you read one of the petitions, "bringing it up to the same as a car would bring in a substantial amount of revenue."

No it wouldn't as leisure boat diesel usage is minuscule compared with road use.

If I remember right, HMRC's own figures during the derogation debate was that losing the tax break would bring in only £6m more.

So, with the 60/40 spilt, they are probably getting about £3m more, so what is another £3m going to do to help out?

In the scheme of things and the knock on damage and loss of tax revenue to an already wounded leisure marine industry makes it a stupid idea.

The health of the leisure boat industry and all the jobs and tax it collects is far more important than a measly £3m.

 

[jfm]

The 2nd-5th links seem to be a case of the same person posting the same idea multiple times!

 

[Angele]

The 2nd-5th links seem to be a case of the same person posting the same idea multiple times!

Must be someone has a grudge against you lot!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Must be someone has a grudge against you lot!

Somebody with a stick and handkerchief, I'll wager

 

[Seahope]

I don't normally frequent this place, not really my sort of thing, so not sure whether this has been "done" on here, but here goes.

There is a new part of the HM Treasury website that allows people to propose ideas for cutting the Government's financial deficit. Some ideas are good, some are nuts. People then vote to say which are good and which are rubbish.

Half a dozen or so think the duty on red diesel should be increased to road fuel level. As you guys/gals have more of an interest in this than me, thought you might like to make your view heard.

You need to register before you can vote, but it doesn't take long.

Diesel tax
Diesel tax again
More diesel tax
A duplicate of the previous
and finally more tax on diesel

Dontya just love this Big Society debate.

Leisure boat diesel usage is a discretionary cost. Albeit a very small share of the total UK diesel usage, it would be interesting to know whether the recent tax rise in the marine world has resulted in the government gaining a larger share of a smaller cake and actually gaining less revenue? Unfortunately, unless one of the larger marina chains is prepared to publish annual diesel volumes sold overall at the end of this year for (say) the past 5 years at we won't know. Even then, annual factors such as weather fluctuations and the recent recession could make the figures difficult to interpret one way or the other.

 

[Angele]

Somebody with a stick and handkerchief, I'll wager

Not me. I was the first to vote on all 5, and I hope I have begun a low scoring trend.

After all, we use red diesel too (well most of us) - just a lot less than you guys.

 

[GrahamHR]

Oil derived fuel is fuel whatever it's used for. Maybe all diesel and petrol used for propulsion should have the same fuel tax applied with no-one exempt from paying it; farmers, commercial boats included. Just think of all the HMRC civil servants that would potentially get rid of, as there would be no potential fuel tax evasion to police. It does seem odd that farmers, commercial and leisure boaters can still use diesel with a considerably lower tax than road diesel, whilst leisure boaters with petrol engines have to pay full road fuel prices for their fuel, as do people that use petrol powered gardening machines for a living.

 

[Angele]

Oil derived fuel is fuel whatever it's used for. Maybe all diesel and petrol used for propulsion should have the same fuel tax applied with no-one exempt from paying it; farmers, commercial boats included. Just think of all the HMRC civil servants that would potentially get rid of, as there would be no potential fuel tax evasion to police. It does seem odd that farmers, commercial and leisure boaters can still use diesel with a considerably lower tax than road diesel, whilst leisure boaters with petrol engines have to pay full road fuel prices for their fuel, as do people that use petrol powered gardening machines for a living.

Interesting and thought provoking response.

Your assertion is that if you remove exemptions that benefit certain users then you dispense with the civil servants who are just there to stamp out tax evaders (and, at the same time, raise more tax).

That is probably true.

But, why stop with fuel used for propulsion? If you said all diesel should be subject to the same rate of duty, whoever used it and whatever the use, then you could do away with even more civil servants.

Unfortunately, that would do away with the 60/40 split and put up the price of red diesel for pleasure boat use to road diesel prices.

Not, I would have thought, a proposal that would get too much support on a mobo forum!

 

[Chris_d]

Seems someone has it in for boat owners regardless of type, figures a bit biased as well " boatowners pay 68ppl car owner 119ppl" don't know where you can get 60/40 for 68ppl cost me 99p last week

 

[GrahamHR]

I didn't expect and wasn't looking for any support here and I understand why I wouldn't get any! My next boat will be a diesel and I hope then to be able to use cheaper fuel than if I get another petrol boat; but that's for entirely selfish reasons. Not because I believe it's fair certain sectors of society pay less tax on what is basically the same commodity product they use that is essential for their livelihood e.g. farmers and commercial fishermen vs truck drivers). As for leisure use of cheaper fuel, that's even more difficult to justify, but I hope it carries on!

 

[jmmt]

As the UK is in the EC and as Brussels is very keen on harmonizing everything lets have the current French road diesel price of around 1.10 Euro/liter and even cheaper in Spain as the universal price for road and marine and be done with all this 60/40 nonsense.

 

[PRH]

Not me. I was the first to vote on all 5, and I hope I have begun a low scoring trend.

After all, we use red diesel too (well most of us) - just a lot less than you guys.

I was the second - we need some support here guys......

 

[Nick_H]

There's little difference in the tax applied to road diesel and marine diesel. You pay full duty on the fuel used for propulsion, and a lower rate of duty on fuel used for doemstic purposes. Now the car driver doesn't live for any period of time in his car, but he enjoys the same tax breaks on the fuel he uses to heat his house, so there's no difference there. Boat owners just merge the two, because they can live on their boats. Now we all know of course that the ratio for most boaters is nothing like the 60/40, but for some it is, and anyway the boater is supposed to declare the correct ratio, so arguably it's an issue of tax evasion, not tax structure. I guess motor caravanners with diesel heaters may feel a bit persecuted, but maybe they could claim the lower duty if they had a seperate tank for the heating fuel?

 

[Angele]

boatowners pay 68ppl car owner 119ppl" don't know where you can get 60/40 for 68ppl cost me 99p last week

I think that the figure of 68ppl is the price for the non-propulsion bit:

0.6 x 119p + 0.4 x 68p = 99p (or near enough as makes no difference).

 

[GrahamHR]

I doubt very much that farmers and commercial boats pay the same duty on diesel that road users do, After all, they are still using "red" and it's only this artificial 60/40 split for leisure boaters that results in more duty being paid now on that "red" by leisure boaters.

 

[Angele]

There's little difference in the tax applied to road diesel and marine diesel. You pay full duty on the fuel used for propulsion, and a lower rate of duty on fuel used for doemstic purposes.

On a 60/40 basis, the difference between marine diesel and road diesel works out at about 20 ppl. As I use about 100 litres per annum it would cost me about £20 p.a. more if I had to pay the full whack for everything I use. Is that all? Goodness me! Why am I getting so bothered?

Strange. I thought my post would trigger much more consternation amongst you lot.

Now we all know of course that the ratio for most boaters is nothing like the 60/40, but for some it is

It certainly is for me, and many other raggies too. Perhaps even 40/60 the other way round!

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

Road fuel tax levels are excessive. Period. End of discussion.

If additional tax must be leveied, make all soap operas pay per view, £1 per time, will raise more money than any hike in fuel taxation. Or kill the genre, result wither way.

 

[Major Catastrophe]

Road fuel tax levels are excessive. Period. End of discussion.

If additional tax must be leveied, make all soap operas pay per view, £1 per time, will raise more money than any hike in fuel taxation. Or kill the genre, result wither way.

I would vote for that man.

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

I would vote for that man.

When I take power you can be Minister for Internal Security. Unless you ever played the game Junta, in which case you can't!